9 ms·

I am not sure why using military plane, even fighter jet to survey earth quake damage is unacceptable and was resisted so much by Gen Jones. It’s inefficient, s

I am not sure why using military plane, even fighter jet to survey earth quake damage is unacceptable and was resisted so much by Gen Jones. It’s inefficient, sure, but if the plane is not used for anything else and it can be used as an exercise as well, as a tax payer, I think such inefficiency is acceptable. The last paragraph is where the salt is, imo: In October, Newsom’s office denounced the Guard’s decision to send a military spy plane to suburban El Dorado Hills, where Baldwin lived, to help civilian authorities monitor demonstrations over the Floyd killing. Baldwin said the fact that he resided in El Dorado Hills, where the protests were small and peaceful, had nothing to do with the deployment of the RC-26B reconnaissance plane.

hartator 5y ago
I guess it slipped fast from earthquake monitoring to protest monitoring.
john_moscow 5y ago
In political decisions like this, the stated reason is always just an excuse for the public. The real reason usually boils down to rivaling circles of cronies competing for influence.
- specialist 5y ago
  Yup. Rules are enforced against people who fall out of favor. Fortunately, the rules are such that no one can be in full compliance. So there's always a handy excuse.
shard 5y ago
As I understand it, sending one of those planes out costs tens of thousands of dollars each flight (any military personnel or military buffs that can corroborate or correct that number?). That might be insignificant from a military budget point of view, but as a taxpayer it does not exactly seem like a good use of money.
- craftinator 5y ago
  Prior military, didn't fly planes, but worked with pilots and asked lots of questions. Cost would likely be a few thousand just to take off and land, and cost of fuel and pilot pay while they're in the air. Keep in mind though, pilots NEED flight hours to maintain their wings, else they get grounded and have to go through additional simulation training and a bunch of other stuff. We'd often have pilots make up reasons to fly back and forth between other bases, just to get their hours in.
  - seriousquestion 5y ago
    What do they do the rest of the time when they're only able to fly a minimum number of hours?
    - Judgmentality 5y ago
      The Air Force, or the Chair Force as it's so affectionately dubbed (by their own members as an inside joke), has the unofficial motto "hurry up and wait!"
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        If you’re not military, it is poor form for you to use that joke. Some jokes are inside jokes, and offensive for others to say. It’s hard to explain, but I wanted to let you know. And yes, hurry up and wait is the first thing I learned in Navy boot camp! I think it’s a military wide ethos.
        Judgmentality 5y ago
        Well my wife used to be in the Air Force and would constantly make fun of how awful it was. And I really don't feel bad if you're offended by something that's true.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
brobdingnagians 5y ago
There are already complaints about militarization of police departments, etc. Having the National Guard just keep F15s ready for "earthquakes" opens up the natural desire to expand them to other uses--- which could lead to things like the matter at hand where the planes are instead used against civilians. I think it is good to resist the expansion of military equipment in the civilian context. Even if there is nothing dicey about it now, just wait until the next guy dreams up some new uses.
- YeBanKo 5y ago
  This is National Guard, it is by design has dual responsibilities: state and federal. Under state command it is actually expected to respond to natural disaster, including earthquake. If federal government took over and put it to the task of flying over civilian objects, that would be a concerting. But since it was done under state command, reposing to a natural disaster is fine. To me a bigger concern, when police gets military grade tech, as there is much less transparency in how it is being used.

hartator 5y ago

I guess it slipped fast from earthquake monitoring to protest monitoring.

john_moscow 5y ago

In political decisions like this, the stated reason is always just an excuse for the public. The real reason usually boils down to rivaling circles of cronies competing for influence.

specialist 5y ago
Yup. Rules are enforced against people who fall out of favor. Fortunately, the rules are such that no one can be in full compliance. So there's always a handy excuse.

shard 5y ago

As I understand it, sending one of those planes out costs tens of thousands of dollars each flight (any military personnel or military buffs that can corroborate or correct that number?). That might be insignificant from a military budget point of view, but as a taxpayer it does not exactly seem like a good use of money.

craftinator 5y ago
Prior military, didn't fly planes, but worked with pilots and asked lots of questions. Cost would likely be a few thousand just to take off and land, and cost of fuel and pilot pay while they're in the air. Keep in mind though, pilots NEED flight hours to maintain their wings, else they get grounded and have to go through additional simulation training and a bunch of other stuff. We'd often have pilots make up reasons to fly back and forth between other bases, just to get their hours in.
- seriousquestion 5y ago
  What do they do the rest of the time when they're only able to fly a minimum number of hours?
  - Judgmentality 5y ago
    The Air Force, or the Chair Force as it's so affectionately dubbed (by their own members as an inside joke), has the unofficial motto "hurry up and wait!"
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      If you’re not military, it is poor form for you to use that joke. Some jokes are inside jokes, and offensive for others to say. It’s hard to explain, but I wanted to let you know. And yes, hurry up and wait is the first thing I learned in Navy boot camp! I think it’s a military wide ethos.
      - Judgmentality 5y ago
        Well my wife used to be in the Air Force and would constantly make fun of how awful it was. And I really don't feel bad if you're offended by something that's true.
        imwillofficial 5y ago

brobdingnagians 5y ago

There are already complaints about militarization of police departments, etc. Having the National Guard just keep F15s ready for "earthquakes" opens up the natural desire to expand them to other uses--- which could lead to things like the matter at hand where the planes are instead used against civilians. I think it is good to resist the expansion of military equipment in the civilian context. Even if there is nothing dicey about it now, just wait until the next guy dreams up some new uses.

YeBanKo 5y ago
This is National Guard, it is by design has dual responsibilities: state and federal. Under state command it is actually expected to respond to natural disaster, including earthquake. If federal government took over and put it to the task of flying over civilian objects, that would be a concerting. But since it was done under state command, reposing to a natural disaster is fine. To me a bigger concern, when police gets military grade tech, as there is much less transparency in how it is being used.