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1 in 5 motor-propelled owners in California switched back to horse and buggy

CameronNemo 6y ago
Meh you could take that position, or you could recognize that the charging networks are sparse, and we are only just now getting EVs with decent ranges at decent prices. I certainly couldn't deal with a Ford Focus Electric or Nissan Leaf. But a Model 3 or a Bolt has >3x the range and they charge faster.
ppf 6y ago
Horse and buggy is more sustainable than either ICE or EV. It's about the most efficient way to convert the power of the sun into forward movement!
- Const-me 6y ago
  > the most efficient way to convert the power of the sun into forward movement Very inefficient, and the difference is several orders of magnitude. A horse needs 2-40 acres of land: https://horses.extension.org/how-much-land-do-i-need-for-a-horse/ https://horses.extension.org/how-much-land-do-i-need-for-a-h... Photovoltaic panels can generate 500 kilowatts on 2 acres. Tesla's V3 supersharger is 250 kilowatt, adds 170 miles in 15 minutes of charging. If the sun is shining for 6 hours, photovoltaic panels on 2 acres charge Teslas to drive 8000 miles. For a horse, the figure is like 40 miles per day.
  - ppf 6y ago
    Horses take a lot less energy and rare minerals to produce than Teslas, superchargers, and solar panels. Edit: You can also do multi-level agriculture, unlike solar panels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvopasture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvopasture
    - Const-me 5y ago
      > Horses take a lot less energy and rare minerals to produce They take 4 years to produce. They eat a lot during that time, that's a lot of energy. Horses include some weird minerals too (copper, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, strontium, chromium, selenium), biologists call them "microelements". > unlike solar panels Same with solar panels: https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/19/solar-panels-agriculture-you-aint-seen-nothing-yet/ https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/19/solar-panels-agricultur...
- rini17 6y ago
  Most efficient means of transportation is a bicycle. Maaaybee if there were bicycles for horses... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance
thephyber 6y ago
When motor-propelled was first invented, gas stations weren’t readily available everywhere and there were lots of things that remained unstandardized. I feel like some of the EV->ICE reversion is justified, but as these issues are ironed out, there will be fewer motor-powered experiences which are inferior to the buggy-powers ones of the time, so they will be rarer.

Meh you could take that position, or you could recognize that the charging networks are sparse, and we are only just now getting EVs with decent ranges at decent prices. I certainly couldn't deal with a Ford Focus Electric or Nissan Leaf. But a Model 3 or a Bolt has >3x the range and they charge faster.

ppf 6y ago

Horse and buggy is more sustainable than either ICE or EV. It's about the most efficient way to convert the power of the sun into forward movement!

Const-me 6y ago
> the most efficient way to convert the power of the sun into forward movement Very inefficient, and the difference is several orders of magnitude. A horse needs 2-40 acres of land: https://horses.extension.org/how-much-land-do-i-need-for-a-horse/ https://horses.extension.org/how-much-land-do-i-need-for-a-h... Photovoltaic panels can generate 500 kilowatts on 2 acres. Tesla's V3 supersharger is 250 kilowatt, adds 170 miles in 15 minutes of charging. If the sun is shining for 6 hours, photovoltaic panels on 2 acres charge Teslas to drive 8000 miles. For a horse, the figure is like 40 miles per day.
- ppf 6y ago
  Horses take a lot less energy and rare minerals to produce than Teslas, superchargers, and solar panels. Edit: You can also do multi-level agriculture, unlike solar panels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvopasture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvopasture
  - Const-me 5y ago
    > Horses take a lot less energy and rare minerals to produce They take 4 years to produce. They eat a lot during that time, that's a lot of energy. Horses include some weird minerals too (copper, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, strontium, chromium, selenium), biologists call them "microelements". > unlike solar panels Same with solar panels: https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/19/solar-panels-agriculture-you-aint-seen-nothing-yet/ https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/19/solar-panels-agricultur...
rini17 6y ago
Most efficient means of transportation is a bicycle. Maaaybee if there were bicycles for horses... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

thephyber 6y ago

When motor-propelled was first invented, gas stations weren’t readily available everywhere and there were lots of things that remained unstandardized. I feel like some of the EV->ICE reversion is justified, but as these issues are ironed out, there will be fewer motor-powered experiences which are inferior to the buggy-powers ones of the time, so they will be rarer.