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I was just thinking the other day about what it must be like to work for Facebook on their security team (I'm in security myself). On an infosec team I have an
by staticassertion 5y ago
I was just thinking the other day about what it must be like to work for Facebook on their security team (I'm in security myself). On an infosec team I have an idea of who the attackers are - there may be multiple, ranging from disgruntled employees to nation states. I think about their incentives, capabilities, and how to reduce risk.
At Facebook... I'm working for the attacker. You're protecting users from some set of other attackers, of course, but like, if the idea here is "reduce harm to the user", you're working for one of those attackers.
Facebook is essentially normalizing a breach. It's not really particularly different from some threat actor gaining access to a database, except that the users "consent" (if such a thing is possible - as if users understand the implications of their consent, not to mention the tracking that happens without consent).
As the post notes, and as Facebook states, " Longer term, though, we expect more scraping incidents and think it’s important to . . . normalize the fact that this activity happens regularly."
Of course, this makes it clear that protecting users isn't the goal, protecting the company's interests is the goal. It feels like engineers and others may be in need of a hippocratic oath - a commitment that makes it clear that, while you may be employed by some entity, you must do no harm. You have ethical responsibilities that extend beyond the scope of your employment to that entity.
> Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ryandrake 5y agoBrave post! Seems whenever you imply on HN that developers should follow some code of ethics, and be held responsible for the ethical impact of the systems they make, people look at you like you have a horn growing out of your head. “But what if my manager TOLD me to write that evil code??” “Hey, I’m not making the requirements, I just implement them!” According to a lot of replies you will get, we are just helpless developer drones, with no say in what we are building.
- justapassenger 5y ago> Brave post! Not commenting on op’s point, but let’s be honest - saying that Facebook is evil on HN is as brave as saying that Fox News is evil on CNN.
- staticassertion 5y agoI think they mean less of the "Facebook is evil" and more of the idea of any kind of regulation or personal responsibility/liability with regards to tech workers.
- loopz 5y agoTeams must be responsible, ie. when harm is done, they know how to amend it fast. Company culture need to prefer this beforehand. Accept the added costs, to reduce those risks and damages. It's part of fix your own shit, don't export it to hostages. Accountability will need to be with the people calling the shots. There is education for all levels in this.
- bourgwaletariat 5y agoI pretty much only log in to make comments like this and the message is well received. We are the ones doing this. Doing something wrong isn't right because someone paid you to. No, it's even worse. It's immoral. I was instructed by management to implement signature fraud into a contract management system for a multibillion dollar real estate brokerage. It was illegal. I refused. They fired me on illegal grounds. I sued and I am currently waiting for a verdict. You can do what is right. You can say no. You can share your complaints about illegal behavior by corporate employees who don't care about what is right with the world. If all the software engineers who are doing the immoral things at Facebook would just quit, there wouldn't be anymore of it. It'd be over. Just walk away. It's destroying the planet. That is not hyperbole. We are, in fact, intentionally creating suffering for millions of people, ... billions of people for ... money. Just stop doing it and the world will instantly become a better place. Not a single person on the planet thinks Zuckerberg is a good person. He is on the record explaining the nefarious reasons he created Facebook. The entire business was built for lecherous, creepy, misogynist purposes. If you work there, you are part of the problem. If you work at Google, you're part of the problem. If you work at the big banks, you're part of the problem. If you work for Monsanto, and on and on and on, then you are part of the problem. You are destroying the planet and humanity and minds. Just... stop.
- staticautomatic 5y agoAre we the baddies?
- johnchristopher 5y agoYou could say the same of IT in insurance or banking though.