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How cute, people still think lightning network is a serious attempt rather than plausible deniability to keep the crypto speculation charade going. Just 18 mor

How cute, people still think lightning network is a serious attempt rather than plausible deniability to keep the crypto speculation charade going. Just 18 more months, my friends. It'll work as designed in 18 months from wherever you are in time.

aftbit 6y ago
It works as designed right now, but it's still designed for crypto nerds, not normal people. I've gotten an open balanced lightning channel using electrum but it was not easy or cheap.
- anonporridge 6y ago
  Designed for crypto nerds is the wrong way to describe it. It's designed to be a fundamental building block that can be configured and built on top of in many different ways, some of which will be ease of use for a non technical end user, though that will still take a lot of work. It might be the case that self custody of coins is just unavoidably hard, and only those willing to go to some abnormal effort can realistically "be their own bank". But no crypto has solved this. Self custody is just intrinsically complicated and riddled with pitfalls.
latch 6y ago
Having been on the receiving end of a "How cute", it's extremely condescending and obviously violates HN guidelines. (the entire comment is just a "shallow dismissal")
rattlesnakedave 6y ago
How cute, people still thinking lightning network doesn’t work. Just 18 more months, my friends, then Bitcoin will crash and prove all of us HN boomers correct.
arcticbull 6y ago
The price of BTC will continue to rise as long as people believe that it can become a currency or respected asset class in the future -- but only so long as that doesn't happen. Treated as a currency, if folks actually started to spend it, velocity would go up and its value would inflate away with no central authority to jump in and help. As an asset, at some point, all the money that will go into it will go into it, and it won't grow anymore, the get-rich-quick game will be over, and people will start to sell, and the price will crater. This can even by triggered by the $30 billion dollars in new money required to pay miners each year. LN is perfect because unless you squint it's a plausible attempt to solve some of the limitations of the underlying asset. But here in reality, opening and closing a single LN channel for everyone on earth would take over 150 years. It would cost 1/3 of a trillion dollars in transaction fees. If you broadcast an old wallet state you'll lose your coins. If any intermediate node goes down, it'll lock up your funds. It suffers from terrible illiquidity. The same number of channels now as 3 years ago. Usage is not growing. It's not a viable solution. It is, however, great distraction. Just 18 more months!
- maclured 6y ago
  I don't think so. Once people realise they can buy real stuff with cryptos without being on the darknet (obligatory mention to particl), they'll see that they actually are a real. useful currency that doesn't need to be converted back to fiat.
- randomhodler84 6y ago
  Check out strike app. It’s an lightning based $US denominated peer to peer payment app (ala Venmo and cash app) and lightning wallet (allows paying lightning invoices). Multiple country (eventually all, as it relies on BTC LN network for settlement). It’s as easy to use as cash app, and doesn’t even mention bitcoin at all. No sir, not 18 months. There is innovation everywhere.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    That actually addresses none of my criticisms of LN though. Why would I want to pay $20-40 to open a channel to obtain the same functionality I get free of charge from my existing dollar denominated Cash App, Cash App? Not to mention when I do, I don't have to pay taxes on every transaction. This is another worse solution, except with crypto.
    - randomhodler84 6y ago
      You didn’t check out the app! There are no lightning channel establishment costs to the user (it’s submarine swaps, server side) The behavior is identical to cash app. It’s also all USD and there are no tax implications (explicitly mentioned in the app). It literally solves all of your concerns. It’s indistinguishable from cash app to the user. Except that it works internationally and very low fees. It’s better solution than cash app but with crypto (abstracted from the user).
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Wait lol, why is Bitcoin involved at all? You literally have to deposit your cash into their un-insured custodial account, then they move it around internally. They could just move database entries around on their own servers. They just need to keep a liquidity pool on both sides for the (likely very few) international transfers that happen, and settle up on a rolling basis with a $20 wire transfer. No bitcoin necessary lol. I mean they don't even allow anyone else to connect to their lightning nodes. [edit] oh I get it, they don't want to register as money transmitters haha, it's just to avoid regulation.

aftbit 6y ago

It works as designed right now, but it's still designed for crypto nerds, not normal people. I've gotten an open balanced lightning channel using electrum but it was not easy or cheap.

anonporridge 6y ago
Designed for crypto nerds is the wrong way to describe it. It's designed to be a fundamental building block that can be configured and built on top of in many different ways, some of which will be ease of use for a non technical end user, though that will still take a lot of work. It might be the case that self custody of coins is just unavoidably hard, and only those willing to go to some abnormal effort can realistically "be their own bank". But no crypto has solved this. Self custody is just intrinsically complicated and riddled with pitfalls.

latch 6y ago

Having been on the receiving end of a "How cute", it's extremely condescending and obviously violates HN guidelines. (the entire comment is just a "shallow dismissal")

rattlesnakedave 6y ago

How cute, people still thinking lightning network doesn’t work. Just 18 more months, my friends, then Bitcoin will crash and prove all of us HN boomers correct.

arcticbull 6y ago

The price of BTC will continue to rise as long as people believe that it can become a currency or respected asset class in the future -- but only so long as that doesn't happen. Treated as a currency, if folks actually started to spend it, velocity would go up and its value would inflate away with no central authority to jump in and help. As an asset, at some point, all the money that will go into it will go into it, and it won't grow anymore, the get-rich-quick game will be over, and people will start to sell, and the price will crater. This can even by triggered by the $30 billion dollars in new money required to pay miners each year. LN is perfect because unless you squint it's a plausible attempt to solve some of the limitations of the underlying asset. But here in reality, opening and closing a single LN channel for everyone on earth would take over 150 years. It would cost 1/3 of a trillion dollars in transaction fees. If you broadcast an old wallet state you'll lose your coins. If any intermediate node goes down, it'll lock up your funds. It suffers from terrible illiquidity. The same number of channels now as 3 years ago. Usage is not growing. It's not a viable solution. It is, however, great distraction. Just 18 more months!

maclured 6y ago
I don't think so. Once people realise they can buy real stuff with cryptos without being on the darknet (obligatory mention to particl), they'll see that they actually are a real. useful currency that doesn't need to be converted back to fiat.
randomhodler84 6y ago
Check out strike app. It’s an lightning based $US denominated peer to peer payment app (ala Venmo and cash app) and lightning wallet (allows paying lightning invoices). Multiple country (eventually all, as it relies on BTC LN network for settlement). It’s as easy to use as cash app, and doesn’t even mention bitcoin at all. No sir, not 18 months. There is innovation everywhere.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  That actually addresses none of my criticisms of LN though. Why would I want to pay $20-40 to open a channel to obtain the same functionality I get free of charge from my existing dollar denominated Cash App, Cash App? Not to mention when I do, I don't have to pay taxes on every transaction. This is another worse solution, except with crypto.
  - randomhodler84 6y ago
    You didn’t check out the app! There are no lightning channel establishment costs to the user (it’s submarine swaps, server side) The behavior is identical to cash app. It’s also all USD and there are no tax implications (explicitly mentioned in the app). It literally solves all of your concerns. It’s indistinguishable from cash app to the user. Except that it works internationally and very low fees. It’s better solution than cash app but with crypto (abstracted from the user).
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Wait lol, why is Bitcoin involved at all? You literally have to deposit your cash into their un-insured custodial account, then they move it around internally. They could just move database entries around on their own servers. They just need to keep a liquidity pool on both sides for the (likely very few) international transfers that happen, and settle up on a rolling basis with a $20 wire transfer. No bitcoin necessary lol. I mean they don't even allow anyone else to connect to their lightning nodes. [edit] oh I get it, they don't want to register as money transmitters haha, it's just to avoid regulation.