5 ms·

Word of warning, stay away from the metal shader bitcode (AIR), or they are gonna sue ya, they did a couple academics for publishing on it.

by dapids 5y ago

Jasper_ 5y ago
That whole stack is conveniently avoided in this research, because they're going from NIR straight to the GPU machine code, without touching AIR.
- dapids 5y ago
  Ah, very clever, will have see what the future brings. I would assume apple would not be too pleased though, with either approach.
  - notaplumber 5y ago
    Why would Apple go through the effort of adding support for booting alternative OS's on M1 Macs and then stand in the way of implementing drivers for the hardware? That doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO. Especially considering Apple could have gone the exact same path as iOS devices, which is a heavily locked-down platform that shares a lot in common.
    - dapids 5y ago
      What? Who? Apple? Please point me towards apple directly upstreaming code to Linux to support M1. Your comment makes no sense, IMHO.
      - coldtea 5y ago
        What are you talking about? Nobody here said about Apple "directly upstreaming code to Linux to support M1". Parent said "adding support for booting alternative OS's on M1 Macs", which Apple did do.
        dapids 5y ago
        What are _you_ talking about? Apple has never directly supported both directly through software support or otherwise, support for booting anything else but macOS on bare-metal M1.
        user-the-name 5y ago
        Not at all true. There's lots of code in macOS to support installing a different OS.
        dapids 5y ago
        Maybe your feeble brain couldn't read what I said. I said M1, not macOS as a whole. This discussion in about M1, think again. I can guarantee you will find nothing pointing in that direction for M1. Go ahead, look.
    - ori_b 5y ago
      Which team is "they", and are "they" communicating with every other team?
    - easton 5y ago
      A platform for amateur XNU kernel research was required, since the only other one besides the Mac is the Security Research iPhone (which is specifically not for amateurs). All of Apple’s documentation (of which there is little) and the boot loader design itself (what with the blessing process for a secondary drive being to install a tiny XNU partition with the bootloader app), point to the process being specifically designed for loading different versions of macOS. Any ability to install Linux (or Windows) is at this point coincidental.
      - notaplumber 5y ago
        Perhaps that's true. From what I read it shipped in a non-working state (manuals were there, but not some utilities were not), and I recall Apple engineers came out on Twitter saying it was being worked on and included it post-launch in macOS betas, even incorporating feedback. I believe Apple did tease at least Windows, maybe Linux in marketing, but I could be mistaken.. Either way, going after OS developers would be an extremely bad look for Apple, especially when they could just as easily disable the feature, or not have bothered finishing the implementation (or done it completely differently) after news of the Linux porting efforts started to spread (especially the Corellium public demo running Ubuntu).
    - watertom 5y ago
      Maybe this an option that’s in place just in case Apple decides to license the chip/boards to one or more OEM’s. OEM licensing makes sense for a SOC, plus the more the chip sells the lower the price per unit, so Apple would make money on the license, and lower their costs.
      - user-the-name 5y ago
        The support is in the OS. It is there to allow you to install other OSes.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
On what grounds do they sue? You can't talk about hardware you bought?
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Did you agree to not reverse engineer the tech stack? If so, they can sue you for breaking that agreement.
  - rileymat2 5y ago
    Typically reverse engineering requires intent to reproduce a tech, not just learn a tech. “ the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.”
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Are you quoting from a precedent there?
      - R0b0t1 5y ago
        RE for interoperability is protected, that suit is dead in the water.
        throw14082020 5y ago
        Tell that to what3words... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27020810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27020810
        saagarjha 5y ago
        That never went to court.
  - notaplumber 5y ago
    EULAs are not legally binding in many jurisdictions.
bronxbomber92 5y ago
Do you have references to the incident(s) or published work(s)?

Word of warning, stay away from the metal shader bitcode (AIR), or they are gonna sue ya, they did a couple academics for publishing on it.

by dapids 5y ago

Word of warning, stay away from the metal shader bitcode (AIR), or they are gonna sue ya, they did a couple academics for publishing on it.

Jasper_ 5y ago

That whole stack is conveniently avoided in this research, because they're going from NIR straight to the GPU machine code, without touching AIR.

dapids 5y ago
Ah, very clever, will have see what the future brings. I would assume apple would not be too pleased though, with either approach.
- notaplumber 5y ago
  Why would Apple go through the effort of adding support for booting alternative OS's on M1 Macs and then stand in the way of implementing drivers for the hardware? That doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO. Especially considering Apple could have gone the exact same path as iOS devices, which is a heavily locked-down platform that shares a lot in common.
  - dapids 5y ago
    What? Who? Apple? Please point me towards apple directly upstreaming code to Linux to support M1. Your comment makes no sense, IMHO.
    - coldtea 5y ago
      What are you talking about? Nobody here said about Apple "directly upstreaming code to Linux to support M1". Parent said "adding support for booting alternative OS's on M1 Macs", which Apple did do.
      - dapids 5y ago
        What are _you_ talking about? Apple has never directly supported both directly through software support or otherwise, support for booting anything else but macOS on bare-metal M1.
        user-the-name 5y ago
        Not at all true. There's lots of code in macOS to support installing a different OS.
        dapids 5y ago
        Maybe your feeble brain couldn't read what I said. I said M1, not macOS as a whole. This discussion in about M1, think again. I can guarantee you will find nothing pointing in that direction for M1. Go ahead, look.
  - ori_b 5y ago
    Which team is "they", and are "they" communicating with every other team?
  - easton 5y ago
    A platform for amateur XNU kernel research was required, since the only other one besides the Mac is the Security Research iPhone (which is specifically not for amateurs). All of Apple’s documentation (of which there is little) and the boot loader design itself (what with the blessing process for a secondary drive being to install a tiny XNU partition with the bootloader app), point to the process being specifically designed for loading different versions of macOS. Any ability to install Linux (or Windows) is at this point coincidental.
    - notaplumber 5y ago
      Perhaps that's true. From what I read it shipped in a non-working state (manuals were there, but not some utilities were not), and I recall Apple engineers came out on Twitter saying it was being worked on and included it post-launch in macOS betas, even incorporating feedback. I believe Apple did tease at least Windows, maybe Linux in marketing, but I could be mistaken.. Either way, going after OS developers would be an extremely bad look for Apple, especially when they could just as easily disable the feature, or not have bothered finishing the implementation (or done it completely differently) after news of the Linux porting efforts started to spread (especially the Corellium public demo running Ubuntu).
  - watertom 5y ago
    Maybe this an option that’s in place just in case Apple decides to license the chip/boards to one or more OEM’s. OEM licensing makes sense for a SOC, plus the more the chip sells the lower the price per unit, so Apple would make money on the license, and lower their costs.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      The support is in the OS. It is there to allow you to install other OSes.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

On what grounds do they sue? You can't talk about hardware you bought?

chrisseaton 5y ago
Did you agree to not reverse engineer the tech stack? If so, they can sue you for breaking that agreement.
- rileymat2 5y ago
  Typically reverse engineering requires intent to reproduce a tech, not just learn a tech. “ the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.”
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Are you quoting from a precedent there?
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      RE for interoperability is protected, that suit is dead in the water.
      - throw14082020 5y ago
        Tell that to what3words... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27020810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27020810
        saagarjha 5y ago
        That never went to court.
- notaplumber 5y ago
  EULAs are not legally binding in many jurisdictions.

bronxbomber92 5y ago

Do you have references to the incident(s) or published work(s)?