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That’s like saying Twitter and Facebook are just text messaging apps. They have changed society. Something can be both simple and revolutionary.

by zepto 6y ago

monoideism 6y ago
> They have changed society. I think most of us would agree that they've changed society for the worse. It pains me as a starry-eyed techie kid from the 90s that this is what we've done. Life was so much better before social media. But yes, they've dramatically changed society.
- zepto 6y ago
  > I think most of us would agree that they've changed society for the worse. I agree with this but I didn’t want to presume it, since there are positives too.
stale2002 6y ago
I am just saying that if you are talking about it, as if it is a magic experience, that is going to cause you to have a magic, life changing revolution, then you need to take a step back and revaluate your life. Thats all. Yes, you can like voice chat apps. Thats fine. But if you start talking about a voice chat application, in these kinds of terms, then you have a problem. As in you are actually, probably, mentally unwell, if you breakdown into tears, with your vison quest that you have completed, when you discovered a voice chat app. And that legitimately seems like how some people are describing clubhouse. There are actually people out there, where it feels like when they talk about clubhouse, they have discovered their new religion of apps. If that is you, then get help.
- zepto 6y ago
  This logic seems to be flawed on the face of it. People do in fact have life-changing experiences through social contact. I.e. by having conversations and meeting people of kinds they hadn’t previously experienced. It’s therefore reasonable to expect, just by the numbers, that a novel social platform with millions of users interacting can create or facilitate such experiences for some people.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > This logic seems to be flawed on the face of it. It is really not. If your reaction to finding out about clubhouse, is to breakdown crying, about the new voice chat app that you have found, then you almost certainly have mental issues that you should try to resolve. > by having conversations and meeting people Thats great. But if your reaction to this, is to talk about this like it is a new religion that you have joined, then you almost certainly have legitimate issues in your life, that you should seek professional help for. Its a voice chat app. That is fine to like it. But having a coming to jesus moment, means that you are almost certainly mentally ill, and need help. > just by the numbers Yes, I am sure that just by the numbers, that there have been multiple people who will talk about the new voice chat app, like it is the greatest thing to ever come into their life, and they will break down crying while talking about it, as if it their new cult/religion that they have joined. But that is the problem. Those people need professional help.
    - zepto 6y ago
      I’m not sure where you are getting the impression that people are having religious experiences on clubhouse. Care to share your sources for that? As for crying as a result of positive social contact, why do you think that is abnormal? People cry on FaceTime or Zoom calls, or the phone as a normal part of social interaction what makes you think they wouldn’t cry sometimes through interactions on clubhouse? Are you a mental health profession? I’d be curious to know what diagnostic criteria or research models you are using to determine that people should seek help.
- putnambr 6y ago
  Social media is revolutionary for many people. It can be inspirational in both good and bad ways. Without social media, the Black Lives Matter movement wouldn't be as wide-reaching, but then again neither would ISIS. I would say these two examples have changed many lives.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    Sigh.... Not sure why it is so hard for people to understand my point. But lets try again with another example. Lets say that you met someone who just learned about chocolate chip cookies. And they like chocolate chip cookies. They like them so much, that they break down crying, every time they talk cookies. Their entire life is now a cookie lifestyle. They have found a new cookie religion. What would you think of this person? Personally, I would think that this person is mentally ill and needs to seek professional help. This is an analogy here. Take everything that I said, about this cookie person, and apply it to clubhouse. Sometimes, it legitimately feels like people are talking about clubhouse, in the same way as this hypothetically mentally ill cookie person. Do you understand the problem here, of why it would be both a problem, for someone to talk about cookies, or clubhouse, in this way that I have described?
    - zepto 6y ago
      > They like them so much, that they break down crying, every time they talk cookies. Who actually does this? It seems like you are seeing this behavior a lot so it should be easy to find an example. > Their entire life is now a cookie lifestyle. A lot of people who join social clubs spend a lot of time at them. That’s not particularly unusual. I don’t see why it would be different for a virtual social club, especially at a time when in-person social experiences are more scarce. It is of course possible that clubhouse selects for people with a kind of mental illness or personality type, but you aren’t making any case for that - you just saying ‘it’ is a problem.
      - stale2002 6y ago
        > It seems like you are seeing this behavior I am being a tab bit hyperbolic, in order to get people to, at the very least, concede the point, that there is some level of obsession with a new voice chat app that is unhealthy. Because it seems like people are almost being intentionally obtuse, and are intentionally misinterpreting my point, in bad faith, in order to win some "debate" that nobody was ever having. If you are willing to agree, that absolutely people could be too obsessed with a voice chat app, then that is my point. It is unfortunate that I have to explain this in such extreme terms, in order for people to understand the point I am trying to make. But here we are. If you want an example, you can just look at the blog post that someone else made about clubhouse, in this very hacker news thread, that described clubhouse in terms, that, although are not as extreme as the hyperbolic example that I gave, should at the very least get you to understand the point I am trying to make here, about... shall we say... at least a moderate amount of unhealthy levels of obsession. https://areoform.wordpress.com/2021/04/18/on-clubhouse/ https://areoform.wordpress.com/2021/04/18/on-clubhouse/ In this blog post, the person describes how they have literally lived in "isolation" for a decade, and that there were time periods, where they did not speak to another human for months. And they use this personal example, of literal isolation for a decade, to describe how clubhouse, changed their life, or something. Like I said, I was being a tad hyperbolic before, but when we are talking about people writing about clubhouse, who spent their life in isolation for a decade, you should be able to understand the point I am trying to make here.

That’s like saying Twitter and Facebook are just text messaging apps. They have changed society. Something can be both simple and revolutionary.

by zepto 6y ago

That’s like saying Twitter and Facebook are just text messaging apps. They have changed society. Something can be both simple and revolutionary.

monoideism 6y ago

> They have changed society. I think most of us would agree that they've changed society for the worse. It pains me as a starry-eyed techie kid from the 90s that this is what we've done. Life was so much better before social media. But yes, they've dramatically changed society.

zepto 6y ago
> I think most of us would agree that they've changed society for the worse. I agree with this but I didn’t want to presume it, since there are positives too.

stale2002 6y ago

I am just saying that if you are talking about it, as if it is a magic experience, that is going to cause you to have a magic, life changing revolution, then you need to take a step back and revaluate your life. Thats all. Yes, you can like voice chat apps. Thats fine. But if you start talking about a voice chat application, in these kinds of terms, then you have a problem. As in you are actually, probably, mentally unwell, if you breakdown into tears, with your vison quest that you have completed, when you discovered a voice chat app. And that legitimately seems like how some people are describing clubhouse. There are actually people out there, where it feels like when they talk about clubhouse, they have discovered their new religion of apps. If that is you, then get help.

zepto 6y ago
This logic seems to be flawed on the face of it. People do in fact have life-changing experiences through social contact. I.e. by having conversations and meeting people of kinds they hadn’t previously experienced. It’s therefore reasonable to expect, just by the numbers, that a novel social platform with millions of users interacting can create or facilitate such experiences for some people.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > This logic seems to be flawed on the face of it. It is really not. If your reaction to finding out about clubhouse, is to breakdown crying, about the new voice chat app that you have found, then you almost certainly have mental issues that you should try to resolve. > by having conversations and meeting people Thats great. But if your reaction to this, is to talk about this like it is a new religion that you have joined, then you almost certainly have legitimate issues in your life, that you should seek professional help for. Its a voice chat app. That is fine to like it. But having a coming to jesus moment, means that you are almost certainly mentally ill, and need help. > just by the numbers Yes, I am sure that just by the numbers, that there have been multiple people who will talk about the new voice chat app, like it is the greatest thing to ever come into their life, and they will break down crying while talking about it, as if it their new cult/religion that they have joined. But that is the problem. Those people need professional help.
  - zepto 6y ago
    I’m not sure where you are getting the impression that people are having religious experiences on clubhouse. Care to share your sources for that? As for crying as a result of positive social contact, why do you think that is abnormal? People cry on FaceTime or Zoom calls, or the phone as a normal part of social interaction what makes you think they wouldn’t cry sometimes through interactions on clubhouse? Are you a mental health profession? I’d be curious to know what diagnostic criteria or research models you are using to determine that people should seek help.
putnambr 6y ago
Social media is revolutionary for many people. It can be inspirational in both good and bad ways. Without social media, the Black Lives Matter movement wouldn't be as wide-reaching, but then again neither would ISIS. I would say these two examples have changed many lives.
- stale2002 6y ago
  Sigh.... Not sure why it is so hard for people to understand my point. But lets try again with another example. Lets say that you met someone who just learned about chocolate chip cookies. And they like chocolate chip cookies. They like them so much, that they break down crying, every time they talk cookies. Their entire life is now a cookie lifestyle. They have found a new cookie religion. What would you think of this person? Personally, I would think that this person is mentally ill and needs to seek professional help. This is an analogy here. Take everything that I said, about this cookie person, and apply it to clubhouse. Sometimes, it legitimately feels like people are talking about clubhouse, in the same way as this hypothetically mentally ill cookie person. Do you understand the problem here, of why it would be both a problem, for someone to talk about cookies, or clubhouse, in this way that I have described?
  - zepto 6y ago
    > They like them so much, that they break down crying, every time they talk cookies. Who actually does this? It seems like you are seeing this behavior a lot so it should be easy to find an example. > Their entire life is now a cookie lifestyle. A lot of people who join social clubs spend a lot of time at them. That’s not particularly unusual. I don’t see why it would be different for a virtual social club, especially at a time when in-person social experiences are more scarce. It is of course possible that clubhouse selects for people with a kind of mental illness or personality type, but you aren’t making any case for that - you just saying ‘it’ is a problem.
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > It seems like you are seeing this behavior I am being a tab bit hyperbolic, in order to get people to, at the very least, concede the point, that there is some level of obsession with a new voice chat app that is unhealthy. Because it seems like people are almost being intentionally obtuse, and are intentionally misinterpreting my point, in bad faith, in order to win some "debate" that nobody was ever having. If you are willing to agree, that absolutely people could be too obsessed with a voice chat app, then that is my point. It is unfortunate that I have to explain this in such extreme terms, in order for people to understand the point I am trying to make. But here we are. If you want an example, you can just look at the blog post that someone else made about clubhouse, in this very hacker news thread, that described clubhouse in terms, that, although are not as extreme as the hyperbolic example that I gave, should at the very least get you to understand the point I am trying to make here, about... shall we say... at least a moderate amount of unhealthy levels of obsession. https://areoform.wordpress.com/2021/04/18/on-clubhouse/ https://areoform.wordpress.com/2021/04/18/on-clubhouse/ In this blog post, the person describes how they have literally lived in "isolation" for a decade, and that there were time periods, where they did not speak to another human for months. And they use this personal example, of literal isolation for a decade, to describe how clubhouse, changed their life, or something. Like I said, I was being a tad hyperbolic before, but when we are talking about people writing about clubhouse, who spent their life in isolation for a decade, you should be able to understand the point I am trying to make here.