4 ms·

If it is done by big agrobusiness, it is bad for the environment/poor people. This is a constant that won't change. The only good food is done by local farmers.

barathr 6y ago
Even the latter statement has to be hedged, unfortunately (e.g., see the Dust Bowl), though it is more often the case. It really comes down to sustainable vs. unsustainable practices.
- nitwit005 6y ago
  Yes, you have to be careful of people's romanticism around farming. A single small farm may not cause much damage, but millions of small farms can easily.
  - barathr 6y ago
    The key with small farms is that they have "skin in the game" and also the feedback loop is faster since they are often on the land and see the effects of what they do.
    - Calvin02 6y ago
      I find it hard to believe that large farms don’t have “skin in the game”. I would think that they manage their farm land as an investment. It isn’t easy to move to a different area due to labor, equipment, investment into the ground, etc. If anything, I’d expect a small farm operation to easily relocate should the land become less productive.
      - barathr 6y ago
        Sustainability is often about long-term productivity, not short-term productivity. A piece of land that's going to be in a family for multiple generations is a different thing from a corporate operation that is looking for quarterly or yearly gains. Yes there are some in the latter category that are thinking long term, but how often are they thinking one generation out, let alone multiple?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
ars 6y ago
> The only good food is done by local farmers. That's never made any sense to me. Why does the food become bad just because I'm farther from the farmer? The environmental emissions from transport are minimal, so that can't be it. Are you trying to say eat from grown by a small farmer? But that's no good either, small farmers are less efficient. Or maybe you are valuing something else over environmental efficiency? Can you explain?
- beaconstudios 6y ago
  Global scale agricultural monocropping using industrial processes and chemicals. Local sourcing implicitly means small scale farms as well.
- mijamo 6y ago
  I don't know about the US but in Europe small farmers are often passionate, and you have to be because you are a business owner earning little money while having a lot to handle and nearly no holiday and leaving far away from everything. Many of them care deeply about their products and try to do things properly and sustainably even if it means less profit. The big farmers are more like regular business owner employing cheap labour and trying to maximize profit while caring much less about the impact. Note that small farmer can be very small indeed, many of them don't even have separate employees. It is not an exact rule of course. There are many irresponsible small farmers who just inherited a small farm and run it poorly, and there's some big farms that do things very properly.
- ganafagol 6y ago
  A farmer with 20-30 cows tends to have a quite close connection with their animals. They often have a small plot of land they can use as pasture and the barn is not super-optimized to squeeze out the last square centimeter for effiency since there are no scale effects where it would have any noticeable effect. Each animal is a being they have often times have a connection with, and empathy for. Most small farmers I know can describe to me quite vividly the personality of each individual of their animals. They care. Big dairy industry looks different. A big farm with 1000 milking cows is hyper-optimized for maximum profit. There is not enough pasture to go round, so depending on regulations of the country, the animals may never go outside ever. If you can save 1% on buying in cheaper food, even if it comes from half a continent away, you do it since that's easily a six-figure savings. If you can increase stocking density withing law limits, you do it. If you need to use less sand or can get away with cleaning their water bins less often, you do it. Each animal is a number that turns food expenses into milk profits, that's it.
voxic11 6y ago
What about those of us who live in places where very little food will grow?
- zdragnar 6y ago
  Everyone must live in high rises so densely packed each forms its own little metropolis, of course.

barathr 6y ago

Even the latter statement has to be hedged, unfortunately (e.g., see the Dust Bowl), though it is more often the case. It really comes down to sustainable vs. unsustainable practices.

nitwit005 6y ago
Yes, you have to be careful of people's romanticism around farming. A single small farm may not cause much damage, but millions of small farms can easily.
- barathr 6y ago
  The key with small farms is that they have "skin in the game" and also the feedback loop is faster since they are often on the land and see the effects of what they do.
  - Calvin02 6y ago
    I find it hard to believe that large farms don’t have “skin in the game”. I would think that they manage their farm land as an investment. It isn’t easy to move to a different area due to labor, equipment, investment into the ground, etc. If anything, I’d expect a small farm operation to easily relocate should the land become less productive.
    - barathr 6y ago
      Sustainability is often about long-term productivity, not short-term productivity. A piece of land that's going to be in a family for multiple generations is a different thing from a corporate operation that is looking for quarterly or yearly gains. Yes there are some in the latter category that are thinking long term, but how often are they thinking one generation out, let alone multiple?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

ars 6y ago

> The only good food is done by local farmers. That's never made any sense to me. Why does the food become bad just because I'm farther from the farmer? The environmental emissions from transport are minimal, so that can't be it. Are you trying to say eat from grown by a small farmer? But that's no good either, small farmers are less efficient. Or maybe you are valuing something else over environmental efficiency? Can you explain?

beaconstudios 6y ago
Global scale agricultural monocropping using industrial processes and chemicals. Local sourcing implicitly means small scale farms as well.
mijamo 6y ago
I don't know about the US but in Europe small farmers are often passionate, and you have to be because you are a business owner earning little money while having a lot to handle and nearly no holiday and leaving far away from everything. Many of them care deeply about their products and try to do things properly and sustainably even if it means less profit. The big farmers are more like regular business owner employing cheap labour and trying to maximize profit while caring much less about the impact. Note that small farmer can be very small indeed, many of them don't even have separate employees. It is not an exact rule of course. There are many irresponsible small farmers who just inherited a small farm and run it poorly, and there's some big farms that do things very properly.
ganafagol 6y ago
A farmer with 20-30 cows tends to have a quite close connection with their animals. They often have a small plot of land they can use as pasture and the barn is not super-optimized to squeeze out the last square centimeter for effiency since there are no scale effects where it would have any noticeable effect. Each animal is a being they have often times have a connection with, and empathy for. Most small farmers I know can describe to me quite vividly the personality of each individual of their animals. They care. Big dairy industry looks different. A big farm with 1000 milking cows is hyper-optimized for maximum profit. There is not enough pasture to go round, so depending on regulations of the country, the animals may never go outside ever. If you can save 1% on buying in cheaper food, even if it comes from half a continent away, you do it since that's easily a six-figure savings. If you can increase stocking density withing law limits, you do it. If you need to use less sand or can get away with cleaning their water bins less often, you do it. Each animal is a number that turns food expenses into milk profits, that's it.

voxic11 6y ago

What about those of us who live in places where very little food will grow?

zdragnar 6y ago
Everyone must live in high rises so densely packed each forms its own little metropolis, of course.