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I doubt it. Both because Amazon pay is decent, but more so because it’s more about class expectations than it is about pay. Lots of jobs make a lot of money,

I doubt it. Both because Amazon pay is decent, but more so because it’s more about class expectations than it is about pay. Lots of jobs make a lot of money, but are still not considered high status.

pydry 5y ago
Jobs like what? The only ones I can think of are ones which suddenly started paying a lot due to some market quirk (e.g. miners in Australia in the 2010s). Class expectations just take a while to catch up (or never do if the market quirk doesn't persist).
- fossuser 5y ago
  Plumbing and electrician are the first two that come to mind. Construction would probably be another. Basically “blue collar” jobs that require a lot of expertise. I’d guess some variation and small business risk, but I think many do well.
  - roninhacker 5y ago
    The reason those don't command respect is because they don't pay well in the main.
    - xupybd 5y ago
      An experienced industrial electrician gets more than your average software developer, here in NZ.
      - pydry 5y ago
        Software devs in NZ are really badly paid.
- tracedddd 5y ago
  Oil industry workers don’t seem to carry much clout, kind of a dirty job with a lot of physical labor, but pays quite well and has for a while. Truckers can still make an upper middle class salary, especially if they own their truck or focus on a niche (refrigerated, military deliveries, cross border, etc.)
  - pydry 5y ago
    I was actually thinking of underwater welders when I wrote that. Not all oil industry jobs pay well but that one really can, and it carries the cachet to boot. It's definitely manual labor royalty - dangerous, highly skilled and pays up to $300k. Truckers are not doing so well these days, and where they do make a lot it's typically because of backbreaking labor and/or taking on financial risks. This still only gets you into lower/mid tier software dev wages.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "I was actually thinking of underwater welders when I wrote that. Not all oil industry jobs pay well but that one really can, and it carries the cachet to boot. It's definitely manual labor royalty - dangerous, highly skilled and pays up to $300k." A lot of the "well paying", low-status jobs mentioned in this thread are dangrous... long-haul truckers, construction workers, underwater welders, even electricians are jobs where you have to risk your life to do them, and many of them are statistically dangerous as well. So whether the people who have such jobs are "well compensated" for risking their lives like that is debatable. Certainly an IT manager job that paid the same as a trucker would be far more preferable in terms of safety, and would therefore be far better compensated when the danger of being a trucker is taken in to account. Of course, low-paid delivery jobs are even worse when you consider that those low-paid delivery drivers have to risk their lives on the road to deliver your packages.
      - fossuser 5y ago
        > “ and would therefore be far better compensated when the danger of being a trucker is taken in to account.” This strikes me as just making up reasons why examples that disprove the status/pay point aren’t really disproving it. If you can just make up reasons why your position is right anyway even in cases where it’s not, then it’s basically unfalsifiable.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  In Canada at least, any contractor/constructing job. Plumbers, electricians are educated specialists making very very good hourly wage but won't get same status as say IT manager. Bonded cleaner with great references can easily be 50 bucks an hour. Truck drivers, forklift operators have steadily been well compensated and need certified skillset but again don't get same perceived class status. Note I'm not saying I don't / these jobs shouldn't have respect :). Question was which well paid jobs are seen as different conferring class status despite good pay and this is the general perception I've observed.
  - pydry 5y ago
    https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Industry=Construction/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Industry=Construction/S... Average is 66k CAD / year, apparently. That's not amazing. Construction is also notorious for ruining your body (health problems / early retirement a necessity) so it's not even as good as a 66k CAD office wage.
- UweSchmidt 5y ago
  Software jobs are low status. We live in a bubble and respect good hackers but normies don't like nerds. Hollywood portrays us between weirdo and pervert, while glorifying lawyers and doctors.
  - FineTralfazz 5y ago
    That has a lot more to do with personality than career. If you’re an irritating know-it-all weirdo, people aren’t going to like you regardless of your job. I’ve known engineers like that that, but most people I know and work with are normal people and are respected.
    - Nasrudith 5y ago
      That victim blaming just plain doesn't line up with reality. Outright assholes are downright lionized. Perfectly upright people are looked down upon for "weird" fields or ones which make them feel insecure or inadequate.
    - robocat 5y ago
      > irritating know-it-all Sounds like lawyers and doctors (or plenty of people really). > weirdo That is a bit of a stereotype. I suspect a large percentage of software jobs are filled by standard people. The weirdos do stand out, but I don’t know anyone who actually fits the Hollywood stereotype. And weirdo be replaced by equally socially unacceptable traits (arrogant or closed-minded etcetera) that apply to doctors and lawyers.
  - fossuser 5y ago
    Not really. If you work in software people think it’s cool. It maybe was low status 20 years ago, but since 2010 or so it’s changed. Even in NYC the finance people prefer to talk about their app ideas rather than admit they work at a bank. Compare that to someone who drives for Amazon - the cultural status is not the same.

pydry 5y ago

Jobs like what? The only ones I can think of are ones which suddenly started paying a lot due to some market quirk (e.g. miners in Australia in the 2010s). Class expectations just take a while to catch up (or never do if the market quirk doesn't persist).

fossuser 5y ago
Plumbing and electrician are the first two that come to mind. Construction would probably be another. Basically “blue collar” jobs that require a lot of expertise. I’d guess some variation and small business risk, but I think many do well.
- roninhacker 5y ago
  The reason those don't command respect is because they don't pay well in the main.
  - xupybd 5y ago
    An experienced industrial electrician gets more than your average software developer, here in NZ.
    - pydry 5y ago
      Software devs in NZ are really badly paid.
tracedddd 5y ago
Oil industry workers don’t seem to carry much clout, kind of a dirty job with a lot of physical labor, but pays quite well and has for a while. Truckers can still make an upper middle class salary, especially if they own their truck or focus on a niche (refrigerated, military deliveries, cross border, etc.)
- pydry 5y ago
  I was actually thinking of underwater welders when I wrote that. Not all oil industry jobs pay well but that one really can, and it carries the cachet to boot. It's definitely manual labor royalty - dangerous, highly skilled and pays up to $300k. Truckers are not doing so well these days, and where they do make a lot it's typically because of backbreaking labor and/or taking on financial risks. This still only gets you into lower/mid tier software dev wages.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "I was actually thinking of underwater welders when I wrote that. Not all oil industry jobs pay well but that one really can, and it carries the cachet to boot. It's definitely manual labor royalty - dangerous, highly skilled and pays up to $300k." A lot of the "well paying", low-status jobs mentioned in this thread are dangrous... long-haul truckers, construction workers, underwater welders, even electricians are jobs where you have to risk your life to do them, and many of them are statistically dangerous as well. So whether the people who have such jobs are "well compensated" for risking their lives like that is debatable. Certainly an IT manager job that paid the same as a trucker would be far more preferable in terms of safety, and would therefore be far better compensated when the danger of being a trucker is taken in to account. Of course, low-paid delivery jobs are even worse when you consider that those low-paid delivery drivers have to risk their lives on the road to deliver your packages.
    - fossuser 5y ago
      > “ and would therefore be far better compensated when the danger of being a trucker is taken in to account.” This strikes me as just making up reasons why examples that disprove the status/pay point aren’t really disproving it. If you can just make up reasons why your position is right anyway even in cases where it’s not, then it’s basically unfalsifiable.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
In Canada at least, any contractor/constructing job. Plumbers, electricians are educated specialists making very very good hourly wage but won't get same status as say IT manager. Bonded cleaner with great references can easily be 50 bucks an hour. Truck drivers, forklift operators have steadily been well compensated and need certified skillset but again don't get same perceived class status. Note I'm not saying I don't / these jobs shouldn't have respect :). Question was which well paid jobs are seen as different conferring class status despite good pay and this is the general perception I've observed.
- pydry 5y ago
  https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Industry=Construction/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Industry=Construction/S... Average is 66k CAD / year, apparently. That's not amazing. Construction is also notorious for ruining your body (health problems / early retirement a necessity) so it's not even as good as a 66k CAD office wage.
UweSchmidt 5y ago
Software jobs are low status. We live in a bubble and respect good hackers but normies don't like nerds. Hollywood portrays us between weirdo and pervert, while glorifying lawyers and doctors.
- FineTralfazz 5y ago
  That has a lot more to do with personality than career. If you’re an irritating know-it-all weirdo, people aren’t going to like you regardless of your job. I’ve known engineers like that that, but most people I know and work with are normal people and are respected.
  - Nasrudith 5y ago
    That victim blaming just plain doesn't line up with reality. Outright assholes are downright lionized. Perfectly upright people are looked down upon for "weird" fields or ones which make them feel insecure or inadequate.
  - robocat 5y ago
    > irritating know-it-all Sounds like lawyers and doctors (or plenty of people really). > weirdo That is a bit of a stereotype. I suspect a large percentage of software jobs are filled by standard people. The weirdos do stand out, but I don’t know anyone who actually fits the Hollywood stereotype. And weirdo be replaced by equally socially unacceptable traits (arrogant or closed-minded etcetera) that apply to doctors and lawyers.
- fossuser 5y ago
  Not really. If you work in software people think it’s cool. It maybe was low status 20 years ago, but since 2010 or so it’s changed. Even in NYC the finance people prefer to talk about their app ideas rather than admit they work at a bank. Compare that to someone who drives for Amazon - the cultural status is not the same.