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Moderna has a public development pipeline. It shows they are working on, among other things, an HIV vaccine and vaccines/therapies for multiple types of cancer.

Moderna has a public development pipeline. It shows they are working on, among other things, an HIV vaccine and vaccines/therapies for multiple types of cancer. https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
est31 5y ago
Plus a flu vaccine: > mRNA vaccines [...] generate a much stronger immune response than responses that are generated to the protein in a normal flu vaccine [...] > One limitation of the current flu vaccines is that they take about six months to develop, meaning scientists must choose which strains they think will be prevalent in the next flu season — even before the current one is over. So by the time the vaccines are ready for distribution, a different strain may have emerged as the better target. > An mRNA flu vaccine, on the other hand, can be developed in about a month or so, giving researchers much more time to determine which strains to protect against. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/11/mrna-flu-shots/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/11/mrna-flu-sh... The flu vaccine seems to me to have a better chance of working than an HIV vaccine because we have been trying for decades to come up with one for HIV, without any success at all. I'm not saying that their attempts won't work either, but it's more of a bet than a flu vaccine. An iterative improvement on the existing flu vaccines would still be very helpful.
- lisper 5y ago
  > by the time the vaccines are ready for distribution, a different strain may have emerged as the better target I have never understood this. How many strains are there? I thought there were only like 4 or so. Why don't they just do them all every year?
  - cannaceo 5y ago
    There are subtypes of each. Influenza A and B cause the seasonal flu. The subtypes are named by their hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N). E.g. H1N1, H5N9, etc.
    - lisper 5y ago
      OK, but that doesn't really answer my question. Turns out the answer can be found here: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm "There are four types of influenza viruses: A, B, C and D. Human influenza A and B viruses cause seasonal epidemics of disease (known as the flu season) almost every winter in the United States. Influenza A viruses are the only influenza viruses known to cause flu pandemics, i.e., global epidemics of flu disease. A pandemic can occur when a new and very different influenza A virus emerges that both infects people and has the ability to spread efficiently between people. Influenza type C infections generally cause mild illness and are not thought to cause human flu epidemics. Influenza D viruses primarily affect cattle and are not known to infect or cause illness in people." "Influenza A viruses are divided into subtypes based on two proteins on the surface of the virus: hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N). There are 18 different hemagglutinin subtypes and 11 different neuraminidase subtypes (H1 through H18 and N1 through N11, respectively). While there are potentially 198 different influenza A subtype combinations, only 131 subtypes have been detected in nature. Current subtypes of influenza A viruses that routinely circulate in people include: A(H1N1) and A(H3N2). Influenza A subtypes can be further broken down into different genetic “clades” and “sub-clades.” See the “Influenza Viruses” graphic below for a visual depiction of these classifications." So the answer is: 198 possible strains, 131 that actually occur. That explains why they have to pick and choose.
      - elcritch 5y ago
        It seems they could pre-make vaccines for all 131 extant types and then mix the flu shots based on the current season. Though, likely that wouldn’t be economical. It does raise the question of why they couldn’t just put a bit of all 131 subtypes in the vaccine. Or if that’d overload the immune system, say, the X subtypes most likely to makeup say 99% of probable flu season strains.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    They constantly mutate.
- vmception 5y ago
  It seems like with HIV they can simply sequence the prevalent evolutionary outcome in your body within a month and give your body the blueprint to destroy that version What typically happens with HIV is that the body kills most of it initially, but the remaining ones keep rapidly evolving until an iteration evades your immune response, this takes about 12 years. Seems like an mRNA vaccine could be done every 3 years for individuals and either completely eradicate the HIV presence in the body or do it once every 12 years for a reset Let me know if I fundamentally misunderstand something
  - robbiep 5y ago
    That's not quite true - HIV of course mutates but in-patient mutations are generally considered to have a negligible effect on outcomes/have a negligible effect as a driver of morbidity . What is the big driver of HIV is in the name, it's a Immunodeficiency virus - it kills CD4+ T cells and other cells of the immune system. At a certain point you don't have enough CD4+ T cells left and you lose your adaptive/cell-mediated immune system and then you're in big trouble. Essentially it's a war of attrition and unless you're part of some tiny proportion of people who have either a form of immunity against it or an immune system that for whatever reason is able to continue waging war on it then you will succumb
- stefantalpalaru 5y ago
  > mRNA vaccines [...] generate a much stronger immune response than responses that are generated to the protein in a normal flu vaccine [...] That's probably due to the immunogenicity of those lipid nanoparticles used to encapsulate the mRNA (particularly the cationic lipid): https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.04.430128v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.04.430128v1....
- lobocinza 5y ago
  VaC (Vaccine as Code)
blumomo 5y ago
HIV is a known virus for many decades. Now that mRNA was released in a rush, why would it suddenly cure HIV?
- toast0 5y ago
  Now that mRNA is productionized (or at least on the path towards it), and has been used in hundreds of millions of people without apparent major negative short term effects, the barrier is lower for other targets which no longer have to prove the whole technology is safe, effective, and producable. We have two examples of safe (so far), effective and mass produced mrna vaccines; so it's probably easier to get funding to research and test other targets. HIV is a popular target, although it's also very difficult.
  - da_big_ghey 5y ago
    how much money in cure HIV? largest endemic area is probably subsaharan Africa, not much in money there. In western nation it mostly is disease for gays or ocasional unlucky blood transfusion receive person [0]. i am not say that cure for it is bad - it is in obvious good - why did Moderna make choice for to research this cure in specific over other? https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/factsheets/cdc-msm-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/factsheets/cdc-msm...
    - tecleandor 5y ago
      That's an answer right from the 80s and it's completely wrong and against the same statistics you link. In the US heterosexuals account for more than 25% of AIDS infections, not accounting bisexuals and undetermined infections.
      - da_big_ghey 5y ago
        i think it are support since 75% still gay and gays is very small section of population. this vast disproportination mean it mostly is still "gay disease". i counter your unacounted factors by my say that maybe some in "straight" population with disease are not wanting to disclose gay. i am wonder if maybe bi sexual are worst because they "leak" disease back into straight population. they are like persons travel between two "bubble" in coronavirus pandemic.
agumonkey 5y ago
brings an odd question, will we have to have artifical exposure to diseases just to ensure our immune system is capable ?
- coderaptor 5y ago
  I'd also like to know where I can read further on discussions on this. My understanding is that it's the same for chickenpox - that lack of frequent natural exposure now requires artificial exposure with boosters to prevent shingles. Feels like vendor lock-in to me - often valuable but with some downsides that need to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
  - manwe150 5y ago
    From my layman's reading (start from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles#Epidemiology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles#Epidemiology), I think the chickenpox vaccine is potentially somewhat the inverse of vendor lock-in: that giving the vaccine to children decreases the possibility of shingles complications later for them, while studies potentially show an increase in the prevalence of complications among unvaccinated older folks, thus making it relatively worse to not vaccinate for it, as you get older, and as others opt into it. Since there's also multiple shingles vaccines now, this sounds to me more like a typical network effect from vaccination? To make up an unrelated tech example of that, my impression was this would be like picking a Blackberry phone, while all your friends have Windows phones. You weren't forced to pick a Blackberry by vendor lock-in, but you may miss out on being in some social circles. Changing that group dynamic would require everyone to switch, not just on a case-by-case basis. But in this example though, the Window's phones (aka vaccination) have strictly more features than the Blackberry (aka kills you less often), so if you can afford to (aka you have an average immune system), it would be more logical to get a new phone yourself and join the network, than to ask all of your friends to get new phones.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  You mean a vaccine?
aeyes 5y ago
BioNTech as well: https://biontech.de/science/pipeline https://biontech.de/science/pipeline

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

est31 5y ago

Plus a flu vaccine: > mRNA vaccines [...] generate a much stronger immune response than responses that are generated to the protein in a normal flu vaccine [...] > One limitation of the current flu vaccines is that they take about six months to develop, meaning scientists must choose which strains they think will be prevalent in the next flu season — even before the current one is over. So by the time the vaccines are ready for distribution, a different strain may have emerged as the better target. > An mRNA flu vaccine, on the other hand, can be developed in about a month or so, giving researchers much more time to determine which strains to protect against. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/11/mrna-flu-shots/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/11/mrna-flu-sh... The flu vaccine seems to me to have a better chance of working than an HIV vaccine because we have been trying for decades to come up with one for HIV, without any success at all. I'm not saying that their attempts won't work either, but it's more of a bet than a flu vaccine. An iterative improvement on the existing flu vaccines would still be very helpful.

lisper 5y ago
> by the time the vaccines are ready for distribution, a different strain may have emerged as the better target I have never understood this. How many strains are there? I thought there were only like 4 or so. Why don't they just do them all every year?
- cannaceo 5y ago
  There are subtypes of each. Influenza A and B cause the seasonal flu. The subtypes are named by their hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N). E.g. H1N1, H5N9, etc.
  - lisper 5y ago
    OK, but that doesn't really answer my question. Turns out the answer can be found here: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm "There are four types of influenza viruses: A, B, C and D. Human influenza A and B viruses cause seasonal epidemics of disease (known as the flu season) almost every winter in the United States. Influenza A viruses are the only influenza viruses known to cause flu pandemics, i.e., global epidemics of flu disease. A pandemic can occur when a new and very different influenza A virus emerges that both infects people and has the ability to spread efficiently between people. Influenza type C infections generally cause mild illness and are not thought to cause human flu epidemics. Influenza D viruses primarily affect cattle and are not known to infect or cause illness in people." "Influenza A viruses are divided into subtypes based on two proteins on the surface of the virus: hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N). There are 18 different hemagglutinin subtypes and 11 different neuraminidase subtypes (H1 through H18 and N1 through N11, respectively). While there are potentially 198 different influenza A subtype combinations, only 131 subtypes have been detected in nature. Current subtypes of influenza A viruses that routinely circulate in people include: A(H1N1) and A(H3N2). Influenza A subtypes can be further broken down into different genetic “clades” and “sub-clades.” See the “Influenza Viruses” graphic below for a visual depiction of these classifications." So the answer is: 198 possible strains, 131 that actually occur. That explains why they have to pick and choose.
    - elcritch 5y ago
      It seems they could pre-make vaccines for all 131 extant types and then mix the flu shots based on the current season. Though, likely that wouldn’t be economical. It does raise the question of why they couldn’t just put a bit of all 131 subtypes in the vaccine. Or if that’d overload the immune system, say, the X subtypes most likely to makeup say 99% of probable flu season strains.
- azinman2 5y ago
  They constantly mutate.
vmception 5y ago
It seems like with HIV they can simply sequence the prevalent evolutionary outcome in your body within a month and give your body the blueprint to destroy that version What typically happens with HIV is that the body kills most of it initially, but the remaining ones keep rapidly evolving until an iteration evades your immune response, this takes about 12 years. Seems like an mRNA vaccine could be done every 3 years for individuals and either completely eradicate the HIV presence in the body or do it once every 12 years for a reset Let me know if I fundamentally misunderstand something
- robbiep 5y ago
  That's not quite true - HIV of course mutates but in-patient mutations are generally considered to have a negligible effect on outcomes/have a negligible effect as a driver of morbidity . What is the big driver of HIV is in the name, it's a Immunodeficiency virus - it kills CD4+ T cells and other cells of the immune system. At a certain point you don't have enough CD4+ T cells left and you lose your adaptive/cell-mediated immune system and then you're in big trouble. Essentially it's a war of attrition and unless you're part of some tiny proportion of people who have either a form of immunity against it or an immune system that for whatever reason is able to continue waging war on it then you will succumb
stefantalpalaru 5y ago
> mRNA vaccines [...] generate a much stronger immune response than responses that are generated to the protein in a normal flu vaccine [...] That's probably due to the immunogenicity of those lipid nanoparticles used to encapsulate the mRNA (particularly the cationic lipid): https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.04.430128v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.04.430128v1....
lobocinza 5y ago
VaC (Vaccine as Code)

blumomo 5y ago

HIV is a known virus for many decades. Now that mRNA was released in a rush, why would it suddenly cure HIV?

toast0 5y ago
Now that mRNA is productionized (or at least on the path towards it), and has been used in hundreds of millions of people without apparent major negative short term effects, the barrier is lower for other targets which no longer have to prove the whole technology is safe, effective, and producable. We have two examples of safe (so far), effective and mass produced mrna vaccines; so it's probably easier to get funding to research and test other targets. HIV is a popular target, although it's also very difficult.
- da_big_ghey 5y ago
  how much money in cure HIV? largest endemic area is probably subsaharan Africa, not much in money there. In western nation it mostly is disease for gays or ocasional unlucky blood transfusion receive person [0]. i am not say that cure for it is bad - it is in obvious good - why did Moderna make choice for to research this cure in specific over other? https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/factsheets/cdc-msm-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/factsheets/cdc-msm...
  - tecleandor 5y ago
    That's an answer right from the 80s and it's completely wrong and against the same statistics you link. In the US heterosexuals account for more than 25% of AIDS infections, not accounting bisexuals and undetermined infections.
    - da_big_ghey 5y ago
      i think it are support since 75% still gay and gays is very small section of population. this vast disproportination mean it mostly is still "gay disease". i counter your unacounted factors by my say that maybe some in "straight" population with disease are not wanting to disclose gay. i am wonder if maybe bi sexual are worst because they "leak" disease back into straight population. they are like persons travel between two "bubble" in coronavirus pandemic.

agumonkey 5y ago

brings an odd question, will we have to have artifical exposure to diseases just to ensure our immune system is capable ?

coderaptor 5y ago
I'd also like to know where I can read further on discussions on this. My understanding is that it's the same for chickenpox - that lack of frequent natural exposure now requires artificial exposure with boosters to prevent shingles. Feels like vendor lock-in to me - often valuable but with some downsides that need to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
- manwe150 5y ago
  From my layman's reading (start from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles#Epidemiology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles#Epidemiology), I think the chickenpox vaccine is potentially somewhat the inverse of vendor lock-in: that giving the vaccine to children decreases the possibility of shingles complications later for them, while studies potentially show an increase in the prevalence of complications among unvaccinated older folks, thus making it relatively worse to not vaccinate for it, as you get older, and as others opt into it. Since there's also multiple shingles vaccines now, this sounds to me more like a typical network effect from vaccination? To make up an unrelated tech example of that, my impression was this would be like picking a Blackberry phone, while all your friends have Windows phones. You weren't forced to pick a Blackberry by vendor lock-in, but you may miss out on being in some social circles. Changing that group dynamic would require everyone to switch, not just on a case-by-case basis. But in this example though, the Window's phones (aka vaccination) have strictly more features than the Blackberry (aka kills you less often), so if you can afford to (aka you have an average immune system), it would be more logical to get a new phone yourself and join the network, than to ask all of your friends to get new phones.
staticassertion 5y ago
You mean a vaccine?

aeyes 5y ago

BioNTech as well: https://biontech.de/science/pipeline https://biontech.de/science/pipeline