4 ms·

It's absolutely bonkers what some people believe in x)

TchoBeer 6y ago
Anything will sound dumb if you dumb it down enough. In actuality A) the eruv only works on a specific case. A public domain needs to have a very wide street with 600,000 people who pass through it every day, which places with an eruv don't have. Technically as per biblical law you can carry even without an eruv, it's only as per rabbinic prohibition that you're not allowed to carry unless you have an eruv. In addition B) the eruv used in most modern communities is the weakest possible form of eruv and not everyone holds by it. My rabbi would only carry in a walled community. Here a great english language article explaining the laws is the following: https://www.halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Introduction_to_the_Modern_Eruv https://www.halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Introduction_to...
- andrepd 6y ago
  Well all these convoluted rules and workarounds are “dumb” from an objective point of view, in that there is no objective reason for their existence. Then again people are free to live by whatever self-imposed rules they desire, as silly as it looks to someone else.
- boublepop 6y ago
  Some people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars every year on maintaining a fishing line around Manhatten. This isn’t “dumbing it down”, it’s just literally the facts of what is going on. Explaining that there are tons more you could dig into about these peoples beliefs around the holy powers of this fishing line and exactly when they do and do not work doesn’t escape the fact that it is dumb. If someone is wearing a tinfoil hat, his lengthy explanations about the capabilities of American and Russian intelligence agencies capabilities doesn’t make it sound less dumb.
  - viciousvoxel 6y ago
    While I agree with you that it does seem particularly wasteful and silly, I think you would benefit from some introspection into your own "dumb" culturally-motivated behaviors, or those of "normal" secular society. As just one instance, aren't engagement and weddings rings expensive and dumb by your measure?
    - andrepd 6y ago
      > As just one instance, aren't engagement and weddings rings expensive and dumb by your measure? Yes...? When the time comes I'll not spend money which could otherwise buy several unforgettable vacation trips on a shiny overpriced rock, due to cultural pressure.
      - viciousvoxel 6y ago
        Great, I honestly think that's awesome, but I meant it as more of an illustrative example that we all have cultural biases and we shouldn't be so quick to label others' practices as "dumb" just because we don't understand them or practice them ourselves. If it was actively harming anyone then that would be another ethical rabbit-hole, but it's not as far as I can tell, and it's their money to spend/waste as they please. Now if we're talking about illegal eruvs (eruvim) such as steel cables or chains at ground-level that have killed motorcyclists in the past...I obviously think that's a good thing...
    - schwartzworld 6y ago
      I paid $20 for my wedding ring. My best friend paid almost $1000 for his. You could switch them and nobody would know.
      - andrepd 6y ago
        Funny thing is 1000$ is "cheap" for an engagement ring
trasz 6y ago
At least this one is harmless.
- chrischen 6y ago
  But it can validate the ones that are not.
sevrinsky 6y ago
Many aspects of Orthodox Judaism observance focus on halacha, often translated as "ritual law", but probably better described as technical religious practice. This may confuse those who expect religion to be primarily concerned with belief or faith. As to the curious case of the eruv: The fundamental laws of Sabbath observance are mandated by the Bible, but the specifics of forbidden activities have been refined by rabbinic discussion over hundreds of years. These are documented in the Mishna, the Talmud, and many other sources continuing to the current era. It would be more accurate to view the eruv as a technical way to enclose a shared communal area. This has always been built into the technical determination of domains as set by rabbanic authorities, and functions more as a constant reminder of Sabbath than as a "loophole". Anyone who observes Shabbat would never confuse it for a regular weekday, even with an eruv and light timers.
- w0de0 6y ago
  Isn’t there some level of faith, small f, required to keep this technical religious practice up? It’s undeniably burdensome, and perhaps a bit silly to the outsider - and goyim culture is not hermetically sealed off, observant Jews know most people live simpler lives. So what keeps them at it, if not faith of some description? I wonder about this in good faith :)

Anything will sound dumb if you dumb it down enough. In actuality A) the eruv only works on a specific case. A public domain needs to have a very wide street with 600,000 people who pass through it every day, which places with an eruv don't have. Technically as per biblical law you can carry even without an eruv, it's only as per rabbinic prohibition that you're not allowed to carry unless you have an eruv. In addition B) the eruv used in most modern communities is the weakest possible form of eruv and not everyone holds by it. My rabbi would only carry in a walled community. Here a great english language article explaining the laws is the following: https://www.halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Introduction_to_the_Modern_Eruv https://www.halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Introduction_to...

andrepd 6y ago
Well all these convoluted rules and workarounds are “dumb” from an objective point of view, in that there is no objective reason for their existence. Then again people are free to live by whatever self-imposed rules they desire, as silly as it looks to someone else.
boublepop 6y ago
Some people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars every year on maintaining a fishing line around Manhatten. This isn’t “dumbing it down”, it’s just literally the facts of what is going on. Explaining that there are tons more you could dig into about these peoples beliefs around the holy powers of this fishing line and exactly when they do and do not work doesn’t escape the fact that it is dumb. If someone is wearing a tinfoil hat, his lengthy explanations about the capabilities of American and Russian intelligence agencies capabilities doesn’t make it sound less dumb.
- viciousvoxel 6y ago
  While I agree with you that it does seem particularly wasteful and silly, I think you would benefit from some introspection into your own "dumb" culturally-motivated behaviors, or those of "normal" secular society. As just one instance, aren't engagement and weddings rings expensive and dumb by your measure?
  - andrepd 6y ago
    > As just one instance, aren't engagement and weddings rings expensive and dumb by your measure? Yes...? When the time comes I'll not spend money which could otherwise buy several unforgettable vacation trips on a shiny overpriced rock, due to cultural pressure.
    - viciousvoxel 6y ago
      Great, I honestly think that's awesome, but I meant it as more of an illustrative example that we all have cultural biases and we shouldn't be so quick to label others' practices as "dumb" just because we don't understand them or practice them ourselves. If it was actively harming anyone then that would be another ethical rabbit-hole, but it's not as far as I can tell, and it's their money to spend/waste as they please. Now if we're talking about illegal eruvs (eruvim) such as steel cables or chains at ground-level that have killed motorcyclists in the past...I obviously think that's a good thing...
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    I paid $20 for my wedding ring. My best friend paid almost $1000 for his. You could switch them and nobody would know.
    - andrepd 6y ago
      Funny thing is 1000$ is "cheap" for an engagement ring

trasz 6y ago

At least this one is harmless.

chrischen 6y ago
But it can validate the ones that are not.

sevrinsky 6y ago

Many aspects of Orthodox Judaism observance focus on halacha, often translated as "ritual law", but probably better described as technical religious practice. This may confuse those who expect religion to be primarily concerned with belief or faith. As to the curious case of the eruv: The fundamental laws of Sabbath observance are mandated by the Bible, but the specifics of forbidden activities have been refined by rabbinic discussion over hundreds of years. These are documented in the Mishna, the Talmud, and many other sources continuing to the current era. It would be more accurate to view the eruv as a technical way to enclose a shared communal area. This has always been built into the technical determination of domains as set by rabbanic authorities, and functions more as a constant reminder of Sabbath than as a "loophole". Anyone who observes Shabbat would never confuse it for a regular weekday, even with an eruv and light timers.

w0de0 6y ago
Isn’t there some level of faith, small f, required to keep this technical religious practice up? It’s undeniably burdensome, and perhaps a bit silly to the outsider - and goyim culture is not hermetically sealed off, observant Jews know most people live simpler lives. So what keeps them at it, if not faith of some description? I wonder about this in good faith :)