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Are microwave attacks something that is proven to exist? Can we replicate the effects on mice from some distance? Given the fact they pass through walls, this k
by bArray 5y ago
Are microwave attacks something that is proven to exist? Can we replicate the effects on mice from some distance? Given the fact they pass through walls, this kind of bounds the frequency range the attacks could exist in... I would expect to see radio interference on nearby devices, etc (even if operating on a different frequency).
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if these could be self-manifesting symptoms from people experiencing burnout, etc. I think there is an example where some town put up a cell tower and everybody started complaining about headaches, despite it being turned off. I think all possibilities should be considered.
Honestly, if I were to attack diplomatic officials, it would be far easier to get them to ingest something. A slow acting toxin for example that you wouldn't normally be searching for on a postmortem - especially if all you're trying to achieve is to impair their mental agility to better your position in talks.
I know people working in foreign Countries who purposely pay more money for Western-import food to avoid accidentally doing this to themselves. In poorer locations you cannot be sure where or how the food was grown. For all you know it comes from an old lady's garden who lives next to the chemical processing facility. Locating the source of food in an completely un-tracked market will be near impossible.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoYes, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon 2.4 GHz is used to heat your food in the microwave. Pulses that increase the fluence by an order of magnitude or more could probably boil water for a microsecond inside the brain and cause some strange reactions. What is unproven though, is how one would ever shrink the size of an electronic weapon like this.
- saalweachter 5y agoThe Active Denial System, listed on your link, causes pain by heating water in the skin. What is the proposed system for getting microwaves past the skin into the brain without creating the same effect as the ADS?
- bmicraft 5y agoUsing longer wavelengths should do exactly that.
- vermilingua 5y agoBut do longer wavelengths act on water in the same way as microwave?
- fzzzy 5y agoThey act on systems of distributed induction and capacitance which are resonant to that longer wavelength.
- truth_ 5y agoOr longer frequency i.e. shorter wavelength?
- shawnz 5y agoHow would that achieve what the other poster is saying, which is to heat the insides more than the surface? Wouldn't that just heat both the insides and the surface more evenly?
- fouric 5y agoEven if this was the case - the insides and surface of the human body have rather different characteristics, with the inside being more sensitive to, well, just about everything than the surface.
- Jenda_ 5y agoLonger wavelengths require huge antennas to concentrate the energy at a distance. It would be probably very difficult to perform this attack. I also think that such energy density with relatively low frequency (~3 GHz) would disturb operation of computers, phones and other electronics, so it would be pretty suspicious.
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- nabla9 5y agoMicrowave transmitters are not that big. 4 kW generator or 100 kW pulse generator fits into a suitcase. What you need is a horn antenna that directs the beam from the distance, across the street for example. It's also possible to have multiple horns around the target. Only in the intersection of the beams the radiation reaches dangerous levels.
- Jenda_ 5y agoHorn antennas have radiation pattern tens of degrees wide, so it's difficult to target one room across the street. I'm not sure intersecting a few of them helps, maybe by a factor of two or so. Back of the envelope math: per Wikipedia: "The gain of horn antennas ranges up to 25 dBi, with 10 - 20 dBi being typical." Let's say you are transmitting 4 kW with a 20 dBi horn, thus having 400 kW EIRP. At a distance of 15 meters, the energy spreads across a sphere of 4PI15^2 = 2800 m^2, for an energy density 140 W/m^2. So yes, this indeed exceeds health limits (in .cz: 50 W/m^2 for workers, 10 W/m^2 for civilians) and is kind a lot. On the other hand, having a 400 kW EIRP source anywhere nearby should be immediately obvious to a NSA or probably anyone with almost any radio receiver, the interference would be terrible.
- bArray 5y ago> On the other hand, having a 400 kW EIRP source anywhere nearby should be immediately obvious to a NSA or probably anyone with almost any radio receiver, the interference would be terrible. This was exactly my thinking, somebody in the local area surely would have noticed this thing was turned on. You're not going to dump 400kW of energy without screwing with something. > So yes, this indeed exceeds health limits (in .cz: 50 W/m^2 for workers, 10 W/m^2 for civilians) and is kind a lot. Is that an enormous difference? It's three times health limits - but how long would you need to hold it there to get health problems? My guess is quite a while to fry your noodle?
- im3w1l 5y agoYou don't need to shrink it. Just go to the 5g antennas in the vicinity and press the big red "activate death ray" button.
- imwillofficial 5y agoI don't know why people are mad, I laughed.
- bqmjjx0kac 5y agoI imagine a direct beam would cause visible burns, but something that never occurred to me is using beamforming to zap inside someone's head. Yikes. Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist.
- XorNot 5y agoBasic problem: How do you target this? Advanced problem: how do you avoid accidentally killing someone while targeting this? You're just talking about shooting "at" someone's head, you're talking about positioning their head in 3D space and shooting so precisely (through potentially layers of brick, metal brick ties, lath etc.) that you hit only inside their head and don't leave any marks or burns on the skin. We don't have the technology to reliably do this today at range.
- mycall 5y agoBeamforming is a solved problem, using the interference of multiple antennas' energy to resonate at exactly the right location for maximum strength. Why do you think this technology isn't reliable?
- XorNot 5y agoBecause you are trying to hit a 15cm by 15cm sphere in 3D space that you cannot see. That it could maybe be done under ideal conditions doesn't explain how you do it when the target is mobile (but let's be generous and say you assume they're in bed), and you need to accurately visualize where they are through an unspecified amount of intermediate interfering elements (people's bedrooms aren't glass boxes). Foil wall insulation would disrupt an attempt at microwave beamforming - so how is targeting being achieved so precisely as to be undetectable and cause no other environmental effects?
- jacquesm 5y agoBut you could set up a field in such a way that statistically speaking inside any 15x15x15 sphere there would be at least one reinforcement happening.
- andi999 5y agoIf liquid in your brain boils, wouldn't you also just turn blind (since the eyeball gets damaged by heat)
- krono 5y agoIIRC The pressure inside the eyeball is relatively high, and the fluid that is inside is very viscous - more like a gel. This could mitigate the effects.
- andi999 5y agoI think it is the other way round. I saw this discussed for microwave from mobile phones, so no movement of fluids makes excessive heat more dangerous.
- Jenda_ 5y agoDo you have any sources regarding the effect of pulses, e.g. in animal studies? Most materials I have found are dealing with average/CW power. (I work with weather radars, so I was doing some research recently to find out what I should do to not die)
- oh_sigh 5y agoThis reminds me of the "I figured out what was wrong with my brain" post from a few days ago. The entire blog was written as if the cause was "overthinking" and he physically depleted some resource in his brain leading to seizures. In reality the illness he linked to clearly states that it is a psychological condition of being overworked/stressed, and treatment needs to be "culturally sensitive" and done with CBT, which would not be the case if you were just missing some chemical in your brain.
- ipaddr 5y agoThe psychological effects could be side effects of a miss chemical. Even after adding the missing chemical psychological issues may need to be dealt with.
- pklee 5y agoInterestingly I was listening to this podcast yesterday - https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/76hgkmv/havana-syndrome-did-a-secret-weapon-fry https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/76hgkmv/havana-synd... Analysis all the possibilities through interview with experts. Hope you find it interesting
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- bArray 5y agoAppreciated! Will give it a listen.
- dv_dt 5y agoWouldn’t it be ironic if this was some secret comm equipment that the US is installing in its own embassies
- cookguyruffles 5y agoThe same idea crossed my mind. Those embassies are chock full of magical equipment, US embassies sometimes have radio-transparent walls for unspecified reasons ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_States,_Berlin#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_States,_... )
- simonblack 5y agoThe only commonality of the cases (in Cuba, China, Australia, Washington) is that all the victims were Government employees. My take is, like yours, that all the cases are industrial injuries. Much better for the Government to blame 'adversaries' than to be on the hook for possibly millions of dollars in Workers' Compensation payouts.
- bArray 5y agoI wouldn't even be surprised. Like a 500W transceiver using encrypted radio signals by the sides of their bed. The boss says "you better keep an eye on this thing, even in your sleep!" - and all the high ranking officials keep their communications device right next to their heads as they sleep.
- andi999 5y agoTo me this (the microwave part) just sounds like jumping to conclusions. I mean why not some (toxic) knock out gas? It reminds me of the cartoon pinky and the brain:`we use microwave and coffee creamer, everybody will believe our miracle, because nobody knows how these things work.
- 252452d 5y agoYes, it is possible to create the perception of sound and even distinct words in the mind of a targeted individual.
- bingbong70 5y agoOne of the leaked NSA slides from 2013-2015 included an electromagnetic weapon that was supposedly used to exfiltrate data from air gapped systems by turning humans (or any living thing with high water content) in a given area into WiFi antennas. If anyone else remembers the slides detailing this device please post the source.
- sigg3 5y agoIt's "just" TEMPEST in the nth iteration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29
- throwaway639035 5y agoNot a proof, but several years ago I found this [1] document from a FOIA request on "Bioeffects of Selected Nonlethal Weapon" and I found it interesting enough to save a copy. Specific section is "Incapacitating Effect: Microwave Hearing". [1] https://legislature.mi.gov/documents/2013-2014/CommitteeDocuments/House/Oversight/Testimony/HCT_OVER-12-2-2014-4(Bob%20Woolever).pdf https://legislature.mi.gov/documents/2013-2014/CommitteeDocu... Edit: ocr-ed version here: https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/files/Bioeffects_of_Selected_Non-Lethal_Weapons.pdf https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/files/Bioeffec...
- tediousdemise 5y agoThe US government tortured people at Guantanamo for 14 years, so I wonder how long they’ve been irradiating their diplomats.
- 01100011 5y ago> A slow acting toxin for example Afflatoxin. Common in food and gives you liver cancer.