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I am thoroughly unhappy about good .com domains being squatted. I can't say how many times a perfectly good domain that I would have liked to start an internet

I am thoroughly unhappy about good .com domains being squatted. I can't say how many times a perfectly good domain that I would have liked to start an internet service on is being squatted with a page of "contact me if interested in domain" message -- and it's more or less useless trying to contact these persons, as they'll not reply, or demand absurd amounts for the domain.

rooshdi 15y ago
Along with patent reform, I'm hoping there's some sort of domain squatting reform down the line. There are way too many squatters doing absolutely nothing with way too many good domains. The domain system right now seems to be working against creating value for the public and more towards creating value for the squatters. There should be some guidelines put in place to ensure domains are being purchased for the benefit of online service creation. This, however, would require a dramatic overhaul of the current domain registering process. Hopefully, this whole issue becomes less relevant as domain names become more obsolete due to web app marketplaces such as the chrome web store, but that may take some time to come to fruition.
- baudehlo 15y ago
  How would you define squatting though? It's a really tough issue to legislate.
  - rooshdi 15y ago
    It is a tough issue, but I think setting some clear requirements for owning a domain name could go a long way. Restricting domain owners from placing parking pages and requiring them to actively work on an online service, be that a web app, web site, blog, or other online medium which provides sincere value to users. Obviously, these guidelines will go into greater detail and be adjusted as time moves on, but it's better to try to resolve this issue than allow it to continue to deter start-ups.
    - ohashi 15y ago
      That's just nonsense. You were going to fail already if you give up because you cannot find a good domain name. Domains are merely a single tool in a giant toolbox to create successful companies. Just because you don't have the absolute best one shouldn't stop you, and if it does, you're doing it wrong.
      - rooshdi 15y ago
        Just because you don't have the absolute best one shouldn't stop you, and if it does, you're doing it wrong. It may not stop you, but the system right now sure doesn't help the situation. Shouldn't we work towards improving it for start-up entrepreneurs instead of just ignoring the problem altogether?
        ohashi 15y ago
        You have a very narrow lense it seems. You focus solely on one interest group and single purpose while ignoring all the others. I suspect the answer is no, we shouldn't just focus on helping startup entrepreneurs with the domain name system. There are many stakeholders from various backgrounds that all need to be considered before trying to push through one specific and narrow interest group. In theory, that's what icann and specifically the ALAC is for.
        rooshdi 15y ago
        There are many stakeholders from various backgrounds that all need to be considered before trying to push through one specific and narrow interest group. Yes, each type of "stakeholder" could be reserved a certain type of domain suffix based on their intended purpose of use. These guidelines should of actually been set in place at the onset so we wouldn't have all of the domain squatters we have today. Also, I'd much prefer to discuss potential solutions with you, but I see you've disregarded the notion completely.
        ohashi 15y ago
  - commandar 15y ago
    A great example of how sticky this can get - the nissan.com domain name. Nissan Motors and Nissan Computer have been fighting over it for years now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Computer
- masterzora 15y ago
  How do you define "online service creation"? Does my personal blog qualify? What about the period of time where I didn't serve anything to the web but was using my server to run a personal email & jabber server? What about the time where I didn't even do that and was using my server as a remote shell for me and a couple friends? What about when I was running it just for me? Should it matter that nobody else should have any interest in masterzora.net since I've (almost; there are a couple silly outliers) uniquely held that handle for over a decade? Every "simple" solution I've heard for the squatter problem is only simple because it's focusing on a simple case.
  - hessenwolf 15y ago
    Everything to do with http://beerhallsofmunich.com/ http://beerhallsofmunich.com/ is squatting. It could be a case study. Incidentally, I bought that to test a system and I will happily transfer it for free to anyone willing to blog/sell teeshirts/whatever about beerhalls in Muenchen. (oh and the ads are default provided by the registrar - please don't click on them!)
  - ohashi 15y ago
    Not to mention the problem of who regulates and monitors. Conflicting interests in the same domain? It's such a complex mess, these simple solutions don't even begin to grasp at understanding the system.
    - rooshdi 15y ago
      It's such a complex mess, these simple solutions don't even begin to grasp at understanding the system. Just because it's complex doesn't mean we can't work towards trying to solve or improve this issue. We can either try to improve it for entrepreneurs and users, or allow it to continue to work in the best interest of sitting squatters.
      - ohashi 15y ago
        Domain squatting is a specific term, it means someone who registers in bad faith to infringe on another company's trademark. Let's be clear about that. Perhaps the system is already optimized for capitalism and entrepreneurship. There are plenty of domains available for next to nothing. Better ones that others have already come up with will cost more. This means that only better financed companies can afford them. Thus, better names go to better companies (in general). Bad companies fail and disappear and a less valuable domain was taken in the process and is now weeded out. Of course, with all these 'noble' goals of helping users and entrepreneurs, drawing actual concrete lines anywhere is virtually impossible. When actually trying to tackle this problem, you realize it's at an equilibrium (albeit a low level one).
hessenwolf 15y ago
Us too - our original business name got squatted because we searched for it in the wrong engine. There are always other reasonable options, though.
nazar 15y ago
Just a week ago, one of my co-founders accidentally leaked the domain name of the start up we were working on. It's a bit of a problem to register domain from where we are, so the time when I got to the registration, I found out that the domain name was taken by one of the local companies. We called them, and they asked us to come and negotiate. When we went to their office, the guy told us that he heard about our start up and he bought the domain for fun, he wanted to see us coming to his office and beg for the domain. Eventually we got the transfer code, but the whole experience was not pleasant.
- killerdark 15y ago
  You were taught a lesson, it wasn't supposed to be pleasant. I hope you learned it well.
rlpb 15y ago
I think domains should just be more expensive, with the money going towards something useful. Would you prefer to pay $200/year for a domain or $20000 to get it from a squatter and then $5/year to keep it? The economy is the system we've used to balance supply and demand for centuries. We should use it to sort the .com mess out. Companies can afford to pay significantly more for their domains. Personal users can easily use subdomains at a lower cost if they wish, as DNS intended. To implement, just ramp up the cost of gTLDs every year.
- masterzora 15y ago
  As someone running a personal .net, I much prefer the $10/yr I'm paying right now. I might be able to afford $200/yr now that I'm working, but I certainly would not have been able to keep that up in college. I don't think cutting students out from being able to have personal domains is at all a good solution.
  - rlpb 15y ago
    You're the exception. You got there first. In a couple of decades, nobody in your situation will be able to get any name that makes sense. At this point, people will have to get subdomains anyway.
    - ohashi 15y ago
      Actually, the domain market I would say is on the decline as PPC which has been fueling it for many years is spiraling down the drain. That business model will erode and become less and less profitable over time. As that happens, I suspect more domains will cross the margin of profitability and be dropped back into availability. It won't happen overnight or instantly, and the best stuff will not become available, but things at the margins will. I think some registries already manipulate renewal/registration costs to make sure there isn't a decline.
- valisystem 15y ago
  I don't think money is the right solution, there is many other uses for the internet than profitable ones.

rooshdi 15y ago

Along with patent reform, I'm hoping there's some sort of domain squatting reform down the line. There are way too many squatters doing absolutely nothing with way too many good domains. The domain system right now seems to be working against creating value for the public and more towards creating value for the squatters. There should be some guidelines put in place to ensure domains are being purchased for the benefit of online service creation. This, however, would require a dramatic overhaul of the current domain registering process. Hopefully, this whole issue becomes less relevant as domain names become more obsolete due to web app marketplaces such as the chrome web store, but that may take some time to come to fruition.

baudehlo 15y ago
How would you define squatting though? It's a really tough issue to legislate.
- rooshdi 15y ago
  It is a tough issue, but I think setting some clear requirements for owning a domain name could go a long way. Restricting domain owners from placing parking pages and requiring them to actively work on an online service, be that a web app, web site, blog, or other online medium which provides sincere value to users. Obviously, these guidelines will go into greater detail and be adjusted as time moves on, but it's better to try to resolve this issue than allow it to continue to deter start-ups.
  - ohashi 15y ago
    That's just nonsense. You were going to fail already if you give up because you cannot find a good domain name. Domains are merely a single tool in a giant toolbox to create successful companies. Just because you don't have the absolute best one shouldn't stop you, and if it does, you're doing it wrong.
    - rooshdi 15y ago
      Just because you don't have the absolute best one shouldn't stop you, and if it does, you're doing it wrong. It may not stop you, but the system right now sure doesn't help the situation. Shouldn't we work towards improving it for start-up entrepreneurs instead of just ignoring the problem altogether?
      - ohashi 15y ago
        You have a very narrow lense it seems. You focus solely on one interest group and single purpose while ignoring all the others. I suspect the answer is no, we shouldn't just focus on helping startup entrepreneurs with the domain name system. There are many stakeholders from various backgrounds that all need to be considered before trying to push through one specific and narrow interest group. In theory, that's what icann and specifically the ALAC is for.
        rooshdi 15y ago
        There are many stakeholders from various backgrounds that all need to be considered before trying to push through one specific and narrow interest group. Yes, each type of "stakeholder" could be reserved a certain type of domain suffix based on their intended purpose of use. These guidelines should of actually been set in place at the onset so we wouldn't have all of the domain squatters we have today. Also, I'd much prefer to discuss potential solutions with you, but I see you've disregarded the notion completely.
        ohashi 15y ago
- commandar 15y ago
  A great example of how sticky this can get - the nissan.com domain name. Nissan Motors and Nissan Computer have been fighting over it for years now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Computer
masterzora 15y ago
How do you define "online service creation"? Does my personal blog qualify? What about the period of time where I didn't serve anything to the web but was using my server to run a personal email & jabber server? What about the time where I didn't even do that and was using my server as a remote shell for me and a couple friends? What about when I was running it just for me? Should it matter that nobody else should have any interest in masterzora.net since I've (almost; there are a couple silly outliers) uniquely held that handle for over a decade? Every "simple" solution I've heard for the squatter problem is only simple because it's focusing on a simple case.
- hessenwolf 15y ago
  Everything to do with http://beerhallsofmunich.com/ http://beerhallsofmunich.com/ is squatting. It could be a case study. Incidentally, I bought that to test a system and I will happily transfer it for free to anyone willing to blog/sell teeshirts/whatever about beerhalls in Muenchen. (oh and the ads are default provided by the registrar - please don't click on them!)
- ohashi 15y ago
  Not to mention the problem of who regulates and monitors. Conflicting interests in the same domain? It's such a complex mess, these simple solutions don't even begin to grasp at understanding the system.
  - rooshdi 15y ago
    It's such a complex mess, these simple solutions don't even begin to grasp at understanding the system. Just because it's complex doesn't mean we can't work towards trying to solve or improve this issue. We can either try to improve it for entrepreneurs and users, or allow it to continue to work in the best interest of sitting squatters.
    - ohashi 15y ago
      Domain squatting is a specific term, it means someone who registers in bad faith to infringe on another company's trademark. Let's be clear about that. Perhaps the system is already optimized for capitalism and entrepreneurship. There are plenty of domains available for next to nothing. Better ones that others have already come up with will cost more. This means that only better financed companies can afford them. Thus, better names go to better companies (in general). Bad companies fail and disappear and a less valuable domain was taken in the process and is now weeded out. Of course, with all these 'noble' goals of helping users and entrepreneurs, drawing actual concrete lines anywhere is virtually impossible. When actually trying to tackle this problem, you realize it's at an equilibrium (albeit a low level one).

hessenwolf 15y ago

Us too - our original business name got squatted because we searched for it in the wrong engine. There are always other reasonable options, though.

nazar 15y ago

Just a week ago, one of my co-founders accidentally leaked the domain name of the start up we were working on. It's a bit of a problem to register domain from where we are, so the time when I got to the registration, I found out that the domain name was taken by one of the local companies. We called them, and they asked us to come and negotiate. When we went to their office, the guy told us that he heard about our start up and he bought the domain for fun, he wanted to see us coming to his office and beg for the domain. Eventually we got the transfer code, but the whole experience was not pleasant.

killerdark 15y ago
You were taught a lesson, it wasn't supposed to be pleasant. I hope you learned it well.

rlpb 15y ago

I think domains should just be more expensive, with the money going towards something useful. Would you prefer to pay $200/year for a domain or $20000 to get it from a squatter and then $5/year to keep it? The economy is the system we've used to balance supply and demand for centuries. We should use it to sort the .com mess out. Companies can afford to pay significantly more for their domains. Personal users can easily use subdomains at a lower cost if they wish, as DNS intended. To implement, just ramp up the cost of gTLDs every year.

masterzora 15y ago
As someone running a personal .net, I much prefer the $10/yr I'm paying right now. I might be able to afford $200/yr now that I'm working, but I certainly would not have been able to keep that up in college. I don't think cutting students out from being able to have personal domains is at all a good solution.
- rlpb 15y ago
  You're the exception. You got there first. In a couple of decades, nobody in your situation will be able to get any name that makes sense. At this point, people will have to get subdomains anyway.
  - ohashi 15y ago
    Actually, the domain market I would say is on the decline as PPC which has been fueling it for many years is spiraling down the drain. That business model will erode and become less and less profitable over time. As that happens, I suspect more domains will cross the margin of profitability and be dropped back into availability. It won't happen overnight or instantly, and the best stuff will not become available, but things at the margins will. I think some registries already manipulate renewal/registration costs to make sure there isn't a decline.
valisystem 15y ago
I don't think money is the right solution, there is many other uses for the internet than profitable ones.