8 ms·

force them to implement proper PWA and there your have it. There is no need for another monopolized, censorized, filled with fake reviews downloads etc store. A

force them to implement proper PWA and there your have it. There is no need for another monopolized, censorized, filled with fake reviews downloads etc store. And allow other browsers. MS bundled IE with Windows < Chrome on IOS is a Safari wrapper

ksec 5y ago
That is only half of story though. Adding a PWA to your HomeScreen is still troublesome. People should be able to scan a QR Code and have that Apps "installed". Except Apple already made that move with QRCode App within their App Store. Further destroying PWA chances of succeeding.
- easton 5y ago
  I'm 90% sure that App Clips are not supposed to be a replacement for PWAs. You still have to build an entire app for the App Store, then figure out how much of it you can fit in 10MB to ship as an App Clip. PWAs don't work on iOS because of Web Push being spammy, and there are easy solutions to that problem (namely, not allowing Web Push until the app is added to the Home Screen), but Apple doesn't think that is enough.
  - ksec 5y ago
    I mean App Clip is a replacement to QRCode App as a concept in UX, not the tech. And Apple will gain an unfair advantage now they have take this step before PWA were even ( if ever ) available. Yes I agree Web Push is certainly a solvable problem. I have always maintain vast majority of Apps doesn't need to be a native app, some sort of decent Web Front End with sprinkle of Native functionality will do. Like most Web Forum, Stores' Front End etc. These business's App doesn't need Apple's curation and gatekeeping.
Google234 5y ago
Please never do that. PWA are 99.999% spam. See Firefox’s research on the topic. I hate every time I visit a new site and there’s some dumb pop up on my browser asking me to enable push notifications. Sometimes I miss click and end up having to go through the annoying process of removing them. Fortunately, Apple cares about its users and won’t enable a feature that is only abused for spam.
- fragile_frogs 5y ago
  Weird, I am using Chrome on Android and 99.999% of the time I don't see a popup asking me to enable push notifications. What websites are you visiting?
  - ex3ndr 5y ago
    Chrome is a different. Chrome shows you some notifications only after you visited it couple of times or was on site couple of minutes.
- hotz 5y ago
  I like to think of it as bad implementations and people not considering the user experience. Sometimes you just have project managers or clients who want it like that regardless of how awful it is. In that scenario I think it's the developer's responsibility to give push back. It's why I don't get asked about implementing pop-ups on homepages.
- afavour 5y ago
  PWAs are just push notifications, it’s an entire app system. Home Screen, offline functionality, intents to share with other apps/the web, seamless updates, etc etc etc. Not to mention that the push permission problem is easily solved, indeed is _already_ solved by Google in Chrome. A lot of it is actually an improvement on APIs like AppCache that Apple originally implemented for iOS web apps! “a feature that is only abused for spam” is a wild misreading of PWAs. It’s true that they aren’t used too widely today but that’s _because_ Apple refuses to support it. I think it was a huge strategic misfire to create this PWA “brand” as it allows everyone to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The vast majority of the APIs involved make sense.
  - afavour 5y ago
    Above should start “PWAs aren’t”, d’oh…
- rchaud 5y ago
  > I hate every time I visit a new site and there’s some dumb pop up on my browser asking me to enable push notifications. So just don't click 'Allow'. Why should the manufacturer have to intervene here?
perryizgr8 5y ago
How about just let the user run whatever he likes on the phone he paid for? PWAs are unnecessarily complicated to mandate by law. Much easier is general stuff like your pocket supercomputer should be able to run arbitrary software.
- kolinko 5y ago
  Allowing companies like Facebook, Google and Epic to skip App Store will end up with users having less choice, not more really. Right now you can choose an open platform, where Google, Facebook and Epic do what they want, or a closed platform that forces them to play by certain rules regarding privacy and whatnot. The moment you allow direct installs of the apps, all the big players will remove themselves from the store and prepare a versions with looser privacy standards (FB & Google), or ones that show you popups for other stuff and use processing power in the background (Epic).
  - xnyan 5y ago
    >Allowing…will end up with users having less choice, not more really Yeah, also war is peace and ignorance is strength. People should be allowed to make “bad” decisions, if they can’t it’s not really freedom.
    - olliej 5y ago
      This type of quote is getting to be a version of that "everything digresses to calling people nazi" rule. Anyway, you're presuming that people would have a choice The only reason Facebook and Google are going to have to get permission to not track you on iOS is the App Store. If they could circumvent the App Store you bet they would and the first thing to go would be those pesky privacy protections. I don't want to give my CC info to a half dozen different companies with worse data security records than Apple, but suddenly every app will require me to install another "App Store", so suddenly my choices become "share my info with dozens of companies that can sell it" vs "don't install any software" That's such a great choice you've given me.
  - perryizgr8 5y ago
kolinko 5y ago
In case of IE with Windows, that situation was different because Windows had a monopoly. In case of Apple, you have similar devices available from other producers with a different OS, and cheaper at that. Personally, a part of the reason I pay premium for Apple's devices is that I want a platform that is locked down, and one company that makes sure that all the others adhere to certain privacy and security standards.

ksec 5y ago

That is only half of story though. Adding a PWA to your HomeScreen is still troublesome. People should be able to scan a QR Code and have that Apps "installed". Except Apple already made that move with QRCode App within their App Store. Further destroying PWA chances of succeeding.

easton 5y ago
I'm 90% sure that App Clips are not supposed to be a replacement for PWAs. You still have to build an entire app for the App Store, then figure out how much of it you can fit in 10MB to ship as an App Clip. PWAs don't work on iOS because of Web Push being spammy, and there are easy solutions to that problem (namely, not allowing Web Push until the app is added to the Home Screen), but Apple doesn't think that is enough.
- ksec 5y ago
  I mean App Clip is a replacement to QRCode App as a concept in UX, not the tech. And Apple will gain an unfair advantage now they have take this step before PWA were even ( if ever ) available. Yes I agree Web Push is certainly a solvable problem. I have always maintain vast majority of Apps doesn't need to be a native app, some sort of decent Web Front End with sprinkle of Native functionality will do. Like most Web Forum, Stores' Front End etc. These business's App doesn't need Apple's curation and gatekeeping.

Google234 5y ago

Please never do that. PWA are 99.999% spam. See Firefox’s research on the topic. I hate every time I visit a new site and there’s some dumb pop up on my browser asking me to enable push notifications. Sometimes I miss click and end up having to go through the annoying process of removing them. Fortunately, Apple cares about its users and won’t enable a feature that is only abused for spam.

fragile_frogs 5y ago
Weird, I am using Chrome on Android and 99.999% of the time I don't see a popup asking me to enable push notifications. What websites are you visiting?
- ex3ndr 5y ago
  Chrome is a different. Chrome shows you some notifications only after you visited it couple of times or was on site couple of minutes.
hotz 5y ago
I like to think of it as bad implementations and people not considering the user experience. Sometimes you just have project managers or clients who want it like that regardless of how awful it is. In that scenario I think it's the developer's responsibility to give push back. It's why I don't get asked about implementing pop-ups on homepages.
afavour 5y ago
PWAs are just push notifications, it’s an entire app system. Home Screen, offline functionality, intents to share with other apps/the web, seamless updates, etc etc etc. Not to mention that the push permission problem is easily solved, indeed is _already_ solved by Google in Chrome. A lot of it is actually an improvement on APIs like AppCache that Apple originally implemented for iOS web apps! “a feature that is only abused for spam” is a wild misreading of PWAs. It’s true that they aren’t used too widely today but that’s _because_ Apple refuses to support it. I think it was a huge strategic misfire to create this PWA “brand” as it allows everyone to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The vast majority of the APIs involved make sense.
- afavour 5y ago
  Above should start “PWAs aren’t”, d’oh…
rchaud 5y ago
> I hate every time I visit a new site and there’s some dumb pop up on my browser asking me to enable push notifications. So just don't click 'Allow'. Why should the manufacturer have to intervene here?

perryizgr8 5y ago

How about just let the user run whatever he likes on the phone he paid for? PWAs are unnecessarily complicated to mandate by law. Much easier is general stuff like your pocket supercomputer should be able to run arbitrary software.

kolinko 5y ago
Allowing companies like Facebook, Google and Epic to skip App Store will end up with users having less choice, not more really. Right now you can choose an open platform, where Google, Facebook and Epic do what they want, or a closed platform that forces them to play by certain rules regarding privacy and whatnot. The moment you allow direct installs of the apps, all the big players will remove themselves from the store and prepare a versions with looser privacy standards (FB & Google), or ones that show you popups for other stuff and use processing power in the background (Epic).
- xnyan 5y ago
  >Allowing…will end up with users having less choice, not more really Yeah, also war is peace and ignorance is strength. People should be allowed to make “bad” decisions, if they can’t it’s not really freedom.
  - olliej 5y ago
    This type of quote is getting to be a version of that "everything digresses to calling people nazi" rule. Anyway, you're presuming that people would have a choice The only reason Facebook and Google are going to have to get permission to not track you on iOS is the App Store. If they could circumvent the App Store you bet they would and the first thing to go would be those pesky privacy protections. I don't want to give my CC info to a half dozen different companies with worse data security records than Apple, but suddenly every app will require me to install another "App Store", so suddenly my choices become "share my info with dozens of companies that can sell it" vs "don't install any software" That's such a great choice you've given me.
- perryizgr8 5y ago

kolinko 5y ago

In case of IE with Windows, that situation was different because Windows had a monopoly. In case of Apple, you have similar devices available from other producers with a different OS, and cheaper at that. Personally, a part of the reason I pay premium for Apple's devices is that I want a platform that is locked down, and one company that makes sure that all the others adhere to certain privacy and security standards.