11 ms·

Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

45 points by merusame 5y ago

0xfaded 5y ago
I'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who decided to stay abroad all rush home whenever things get bad in their necks of the woods.
- chris_wot 5y ago
  There are thousands of Australians who tried to get home, but were unable to. Your comment is misleading.
- viraptor 5y ago
  I'd be more understanding if this was applied consistently. But for example Oz knew the tennis tournament was unsafe, yet players were flown in, likely infected on the flight and hosted while sick. If the same can't be afforded to people returning home, that's BS. Also if people would be jailed rather than sent back, it means gov can deal with their quarantine if they have to.
- Closi 5y ago
  Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, you chose to live abroad so stay out" is one way to handle this, but in reality there should probably be more nuance. Even if you decided to stay abroad because you don't want to quit your job, but then the country you were working in starts to have oxygen shortages and their medical system starts failing during a global pandemic, I think this also counts as a situation where a country should be helping it's citizens rather than saying "Well sorry, you knew the risk, we offered you the option to quit your job and come back home and be unemployed, but you chose to stay there. I mean we could set up a quarantine facility but if you come back we will send you to jail instead". They should offer some sort of pathway for getting back, even if it means sitting for 2 weeks in a government quarantine facility and having to pay for the priviledge.
  - 0xfaded 5y ago
    I see your points, especially with the conflict if citizenship. There will be an obligation on the government to come up with a solution, but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. I could see an island quarantine facility being established.
    - nessex 5y ago
      This sort of thing has been brought up for more than a year. The federal government has shirked all responsibility from the start of this whole affair. States have requested federal support for establishing these sorts of quarantine facilities, and been rejected on multiple occasions. The federal government claims it is a state responsibility, as health is generally a state responsibility. However, constitutionally quarantine is a Commonwealth responsibility and therefore the federal government should be handling it. As a citizen overseas, states do not harbor much responsibility for my situation as I'm not a resident of said state, which is fair enough in my mind. But that means the federal government's dereliction of responsibility leaves me and many others out to dry. I'm just glad the country that invited me in hasn't been so incompetent and cruel.
    - sumedh 5y ago
      > but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. Wasnt 2020 enough for the planning, how much time do you need?
    - Closi 5y ago
      If only the Australian government had the resources to rent a few busses and hotels.
      - nix23 5y ago
        Or even something crazy like a quarantine room in the embassy before flown out from india...and since your alone (or other previously quarantined aussies) in the aircraft that should be no problem...but more important, if you go back are you instantly thrown into the jail? Questions after questions. And even funnier, 66k OR prison...that's what i call fair.
- barry27 5y ago
  Yeah, nah. You are very definitely an Australian. "It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices..."...that's the true spirit of Australia, right there, folks. It's not like in Crocodile Dundee. Australia is uptight and full of prefects.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - twobitshifter 5y ago
    Legally is allowing them to return and fining and imprisoning them the same as not allowing them to return?
    - ukie 5y ago
      Yes, because you're effectively being punished for exercising your right.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - publicola1990 5y ago
    I remember India itself violating this as part of pandemic related restrictions last year, when they tried to restrict entry of Indians who were abroad back to India.
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      The problem with international law is of course that there is no way to enforce it, the states are sovereign. But a state can’t violate them too egregiously and still pretend to be a first world lawful state.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  Australia keeping its own citizens out is heartless. Particularly during a crisis. Governments have a responsibility before all of their citizens. The responsibility for this doesn't solely rest on the government either. In a country where the highest power is supposedly held by the people, the people also share in this responsibility. That's what citizenship is about. If the government can renege on its deal, then can citizens get out of their obligation to pay taxes too? Are you even a citizen if you're not legally allowed to return to the country?
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Who cares if they are consistent? If my government tells me ahead of time that it’s going to infringe upon my rights, does that somehow make it acceptable?
intricatedetail 5y ago
This is pretty lame for a government to do. People pay huge taxes there for policies that 5 yo could come up with. What all those advisors get paid for? If I was Australian I would demand my taxes back.
mobilemidget 5y ago
This makes me wonder about, how cargo is currently handled between India and Australia?
- kylehotchkiss 5y ago
  Two sets of crew on the plane, they never formally depart other than a pre-flight check.
twirlock 5y ago
This is the kind of thing that happens when you let spooks run your country.
quantum_state 5y ago
Feel obligated to say this “law” of the Australia government is an operational definition of a “shithole country” ....
ceilingcorner 5y ago
It’s for reasons like this that the American tradition of defending civil liberties and the Constitution is so important. Clearly some Anglosphere countries without this tradition have no issues violating it when convenient. To think - thrown in prison for returning to your own country. It’s completely absurd.

45 points by merusame 5y ago

I'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who decided to stay abroad all rush home whenever things get bad in their necks of the woods.

chris_wot 5y ago
There are thousands of Australians who tried to get home, but were unable to. Your comment is misleading.
viraptor 5y ago
I'd be more understanding if this was applied consistently. But for example Oz knew the tennis tournament was unsafe, yet players were flown in, likely infected on the flight and hosted while sick. If the same can't be afforded to people returning home, that's BS. Also if people would be jailed rather than sent back, it means gov can deal with their quarantine if they have to.
Closi 5y ago
Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, you chose to live abroad so stay out" is one way to handle this, but in reality there should probably be more nuance. Even if you decided to stay abroad because you don't want to quit your job, but then the country you were working in starts to have oxygen shortages and their medical system starts failing during a global pandemic, I think this also counts as a situation where a country should be helping it's citizens rather than saying "Well sorry, you knew the risk, we offered you the option to quit your job and come back home and be unemployed, but you chose to stay there. I mean we could set up a quarantine facility but if you come back we will send you to jail instead". They should offer some sort of pathway for getting back, even if it means sitting for 2 weeks in a government quarantine facility and having to pay for the priviledge.
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  I see your points, especially with the conflict if citizenship. There will be an obligation on the government to come up with a solution, but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. I could see an island quarantine facility being established.
  - nessex 5y ago
    This sort of thing has been brought up for more than a year. The federal government has shirked all responsibility from the start of this whole affair. States have requested federal support for establishing these sorts of quarantine facilities, and been rejected on multiple occasions. The federal government claims it is a state responsibility, as health is generally a state responsibility. However, constitutionally quarantine is a Commonwealth responsibility and therefore the federal government should be handling it. As a citizen overseas, states do not harbor much responsibility for my situation as I'm not a resident of said state, which is fair enough in my mind. But that means the federal government's dereliction of responsibility leaves me and many others out to dry. I'm just glad the country that invited me in hasn't been so incompetent and cruel.
  - sumedh 5y ago
    > but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. Wasnt 2020 enough for the planning, how much time do you need?
  - Closi 5y ago
    If only the Australian government had the resources to rent a few busses and hotels.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Or even something crazy like a quarantine room in the embassy before flown out from india...and since your alone (or other previously quarantined aussies) in the aircraft that should be no problem...but more important, if you go back are you instantly thrown into the jail? Questions after questions. And even funnier, 66k OR prison...that's what i call fair.
barry27 5y ago
Yeah, nah. You are very definitely an Australian. "It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices..."...that's the true spirit of Australia, right there, folks. It's not like in Crocodile Dundee. Australia is uptight and full of prefects.
tinus_hn 5y ago
All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- twobitshifter 5y ago
  Legally is allowing them to return and fining and imprisoning them the same as not allowing them to return?
  - ukie 5y ago
    Yes, because you're effectively being punished for exercising your right.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- publicola1990 5y ago
  I remember India itself violating this as part of pandemic related restrictions last year, when they tried to restrict entry of Indians who were abroad back to India.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    The problem with international law is of course that there is no way to enforce it, the states are sovereign. But a state can’t violate them too egregiously and still pretend to be a first world lawful state.
Aerroon 5y ago
Australia keeping its own citizens out is heartless. Particularly during a crisis. Governments have a responsibility before all of their citizens. The responsibility for this doesn't solely rest on the government either. In a country where the highest power is supposedly held by the people, the people also share in this responsibility. That's what citizenship is about. If the government can renege on its deal, then can citizens get out of their obligation to pay taxes too? Are you even a citizen if you're not legally allowed to return to the country?
ceilingcorner 5y ago
Who cares if they are consistent? If my government tells me ahead of time that it’s going to infringe upon my rights, does that somehow make it acceptable?

intricatedetail 5y ago

This is pretty lame for a government to do. People pay huge taxes there for policies that 5 yo could come up with. What all those advisors get paid for? If I was Australian I would demand my taxes back.

mobilemidget 5y ago

This makes me wonder about, how cargo is currently handled between India and Australia?

kylehotchkiss 5y ago
Two sets of crew on the plane, they never formally depart other than a pre-flight check.

twirlock 5y ago

This is the kind of thing that happens when you let spooks run your country.

quantum_state 5y ago

Feel obligated to say this “law” of the Australia government is an operational definition of a “shithole country” ....

ceilingcorner 5y ago

It’s for reasons like this that the American tradition of defending civil liberties and the Constitution is so important. Clearly some Anglosphere countries without this tradition have no issues violating it when convenient. To think - thrown in prison for returning to your own country. It’s completely absurd.