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Holy shit. I knew about eruvin, but I didn't know there was one all the way around Manhattan! How would anybody know if a distant part of the line was down?

Holy shit. I knew about eruvin, but I didn't know there was one all the way around Manhattan! How would anybody know if a distant part of the line was down? That would put them in violation, wouldn't it?

josh_fyi 5y ago
It is inspected weekly before the Sabbath and fixed, or if it can't be, an announcement is made.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
_hijk 5y ago
Someone checks the eruv every week before Shabbat[1] and they have a weekly announcement if it is operational [2]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-enci... [2] https://twitter.com/ManhattanEruv/status/1388202630048993281 https://twitter.com/ManhattanEruv/status/1388202630048993281
- david-gpu 5y ago
  Why not make it conductive and test if any section is down by seeing that the circuit is broken?
  - Kipters 5y ago
    Wouldn't that mean operating an electric device?
    - reissbaker 5y ago
      You could check the connection before the Sabbath, similar to how you check the eruv integrity before the Sabbath. So it'd be fine. It's an interesting idea!
      - TchoBeer 5y ago
        This is a fascinating idea and not something I've ever heard brought up. Do you think the authorities would allow a length of wire with a current passing through it to be erected in their city?
        david-gpu 5y ago
        Aren't there millions of cables throughout Manhattan already, whether to carry power, telephone signals, etc.? The wire could be insulated and low-voltage, you know.
        Kipters 5y ago
        If I recall my electronics/telecommunications classes correctly, you would only need very little current. You could also send short pulses and wait for the "echo" back to have a rough estimate of where the cable is broken. The biggest issue I see is about the cable length: you would need to use high voltages to make up for the losses and fault location would become way more difficult. Another option would be break up the cable in smaller sections and monitor each of these independently, but I don't know if that's a valid option for this use case since the entire point of the eruv is that it must be continuous (maybe the sections could be tied together using non-conductive materials?)
    - adrianN 5y ago
      If you're allowed to step on an automatic elevator, you probably also are allowed to look at an LED and take action when it's off.
      - olyjohn 5y ago
        That’s what I do t get. Just because you’re not pushing the buttons doesn’t mean you’re not operating it... you’re still using it, and the end result is the same. The elevators still probably have safety sensors, so you’re still triggering them when you walk through the doors. What’s the difference between walking though a sensor and pushing a button?
        banana_giraffe 5y ago
        It's like the Sabbath mode on some ovens that let you change the temp, but don't feed back the change to the display panel till after a random delay. I guess if you add a Rube Goldberg machine to your electronics, it's ok. My favorite was when I visited some family members that lived in a area with many devout Jewish people. The building they lived in didn't have elevators with a Sabbath mode, and when I entered the elevator, an elderly woman who had been waiting entered with me and mumbled "I live on floor 12". I pressed the button for her, but it was only later that I realized she was waiting for someone to do the work for her without specifically instructing them to do the work because of the day. So odd.
  - arrow7000 5y ago
    Because the eruv doesn't just consist of one single unbroken wire. It also often includes natural boundaries like rivers, but also other ones like fences, bridges and motorways. Often eruvim (plural of eruv) will be built with an irregular shape specifically so they can take advantage of these; thereby reducing the need for new construction.
steviedotboston 5y ago
I created a service to people can find out if their eruv is up/down http://eruvstat.us http://eruvstat.us
tdeck 5y ago
There are also two in San Francisco. I lived inside one for six years and never knew it.
thamer 5y ago
The video linked in the parent post explains that the Manhattan eruv has never been down. A rabbi goes all around on Thursday and repairs are made on Friday if needed. Even when the Thanksgiving parade knocked down some wires or after hurricane Sandy, they managed to get it repaired in time for Shabbat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccfDo7yTHr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccfDo7yTHr8

josh_fyi 5y ago

It is inspected weekly before the Sabbath and fixed, or if it can't be, an announcement is made.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

_hijk 5y ago

Someone checks the eruv every week before Shabbat[1] and they have a weekly announcement if it is operational [2]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-enci... [2] https://twitter.com/ManhattanEruv/status/1388202630048993281 https://twitter.com/ManhattanEruv/status/1388202630048993281

david-gpu 5y ago
Why not make it conductive and test if any section is down by seeing that the circuit is broken?
- Kipters 5y ago
  Wouldn't that mean operating an electric device?
  - reissbaker 5y ago
    You could check the connection before the Sabbath, similar to how you check the eruv integrity before the Sabbath. So it'd be fine. It's an interesting idea!
    - TchoBeer 5y ago
      This is a fascinating idea and not something I've ever heard brought up. Do you think the authorities would allow a length of wire with a current passing through it to be erected in their city?
      - david-gpu 5y ago
        Aren't there millions of cables throughout Manhattan already, whether to carry power, telephone signals, etc.? The wire could be insulated and low-voltage, you know.
      - Kipters 5y ago
        If I recall my electronics/telecommunications classes correctly, you would only need very little current. You could also send short pulses and wait for the "echo" back to have a rough estimate of where the cable is broken. The biggest issue I see is about the cable length: you would need to use high voltages to make up for the losses and fault location would become way more difficult. Another option would be break up the cable in smaller sections and monitor each of these independently, but I don't know if that's a valid option for this use case since the entire point of the eruv is that it must be continuous (maybe the sections could be tied together using non-conductive materials?)
  - adrianN 5y ago
    If you're allowed to step on an automatic elevator, you probably also are allowed to look at an LED and take action when it's off.
    - olyjohn 5y ago
      That’s what I do t get. Just because you’re not pushing the buttons doesn’t mean you’re not operating it... you’re still using it, and the end result is the same. The elevators still probably have safety sensors, so you’re still triggering them when you walk through the doors. What’s the difference between walking though a sensor and pushing a button?
      - banana_giraffe 5y ago
        It's like the Sabbath mode on some ovens that let you change the temp, but don't feed back the change to the display panel till after a random delay. I guess if you add a Rube Goldberg machine to your electronics, it's ok. My favorite was when I visited some family members that lived in a area with many devout Jewish people. The building they lived in didn't have elevators with a Sabbath mode, and when I entered the elevator, an elderly woman who had been waiting entered with me and mumbled "I live on floor 12". I pressed the button for her, but it was only later that I realized she was waiting for someone to do the work for her without specifically instructing them to do the work because of the day. So odd.
- arrow7000 5y ago
  Because the eruv doesn't just consist of one single unbroken wire. It also often includes natural boundaries like rivers, but also other ones like fences, bridges and motorways. Often eruvim (plural of eruv) will be built with an irregular shape specifically so they can take advantage of these; thereby reducing the need for new construction.

steviedotboston 5y ago

I created a service to people can find out if their eruv is up/down http://eruvstat.us http://eruvstat.us

tdeck 5y ago

There are also two in San Francisco. I lived inside one for six years and never knew it.

thamer 5y ago

The video linked in the parent post explains that the Manhattan eruv has never been down. A rabbi goes all around on Thursday and repairs are made on Friday if needed. Even when the Thanksgiving parade knocked down some wires or after hurricane Sandy, they managed to get it repaired in time for Shabbat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccfDo7yTHr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccfDo7yTHr8