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Humans evolved colour vision to detect ripe fruit. Fruit has a, relatively, considerable amount of sugar. For such a substantial mutation, for which all of us s

Humans evolved colour vision to detect ripe fruit. Fruit has a, relatively, considerable amount of sugar. For such a substantial mutation, for which all of us share, it would seem counter-productive to evolve such a trait that harms us.

Romanulus 5y ago
Sure... oxygen is good for us but it becomes toxic if we get too much of it (like with anything). Perhaps if we were living more like rugged-style, svelte cavemen it would be okay to get a burst of sugar here and there (instead of every time we plop down on the couch or roll through a drive-through).
mattnewton 5y ago
My impression was that was just a theory based on the assumption that fruit was worth evolving to eat. It could be a happy accidental source with calories; or it could have been a great source of calories that was the best option at the time, but is no longer.
thatcat 5y ago
Or did plants evolve colored fruit because the plants with colored fruit were recognized most easily and thus spread the most by animals (including humans)?
kstenerud 5y ago
Earlier fruits didn't have anywhere near the sugar content of the cultivated ones today. In fact, many fruits of old were inedible (e.g. apples). Sources of sugar such as sweet fruits and honey were rare delicacies, not daily occurrences. Humans in various regions would have adapted over 1000 generations to better match their environment. We live in a VERY different world now.
- hoka-one-one 5y ago
  Can you cite some sources please? I've tasted some very sweet wild berries.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    And I had some very sour apples so I think our anecdata cancel each other.
    - RugnirViking 5y ago
      The existance of fruit that isn't sweet is not a counter example to the fact that sweet fruit exists at all
  - shlant 5y ago
    here is some info refuting that often parroted myth: 1. https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 2. https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/ https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
- chmod600 5y ago
  While I'm sure not everyone had access to sweet fruit all the time, are you sure it was really so rare? Fruit is meant to be eaten, so as long as plants have the spare energy, I don't see why they wouldn't make lots of appealing fruit. Veggies would make more sense to be bitter. Also, where did you get 1000 generations from? That's 20000 years in one place. It seems like a lot of humans would be a lot more mobile than that.
  - yosito 5y ago
    > Fruit is meant to be eaten Meant by who? Evolution don't give a fuck...
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      I thought the whole evolutionary advantage was that animals spread the seeds around after eating the fruit, making survival much more likely. So not 'meant to be eaten' as in intentional choices, but meant to be eaten as in - this is why its an evolutionary advantage.
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      By the plant. The plant that is driven by its genes to maximize its offspring.
- 55555 5y ago
  This is a myth. I think 10,000 years ago there were only 2 million humans walking the earth. Fruit trees growing on uninhabited islands today have delicious sweet mangos. Fruits which exist but have never been cultivated at scale are also deliciously sweet.
  - shlant 5y ago
    yea just come to Borneo and try some of the native fruits to see how wrong that myth is ;)
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > Earlier fruits didn't have anywhere near the sugar content of the cultivated ones today. In fact, many fruits of old were inedible I have heard that cereal crops (wheat, corn) were basically grass before farming started. This was a disadvantage for Aztecs and Mayans since it took a while for humans to migrate there, and then to cultivate them to a useful efficiency level.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  In addition to things other folks have said: Honey has existed for quite some time, because bees have existed for quite some time. Honey is pretty full of sugary goodness.
- shlant 5y ago
  > Earlier fruits didn't have anywhere near the sugar content of the cultivated ones today This is not substantiated[1][2] 1. https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 2. https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/ https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
jimmyneptune 5y ago
The fruit we have today is so much higher in sugar than back in times when the vision evolved.
pillefitz 5y ago
Not starving >> slight brain fog
guerrilla 5y ago
Fruit comes with fiberand vitamins. I suspect that's the real difference.

Romanulus 5y ago

Sure... oxygen is good for us but it becomes toxic if we get too much of it (like with anything). Perhaps if we were living more like rugged-style, svelte cavemen it would be okay to get a burst of sugar here and there (instead of every time we plop down on the couch or roll through a drive-through).

mattnewton 5y ago

My impression was that was just a theory based on the assumption that fruit was worth evolving to eat. It could be a happy accidental source with calories; or it could have been a great source of calories that was the best option at the time, but is no longer.

thatcat 5y ago

Or did plants evolve colored fruit because the plants with colored fruit were recognized most easily and thus spread the most by animals (including humans)?

kstenerud 5y ago

Earlier fruits didn't have anywhere near the sugar content of the cultivated ones today. In fact, many fruits of old were inedible (e.g. apples). Sources of sugar such as sweet fruits and honey were rare delicacies, not daily occurrences. Humans in various regions would have adapted over 1000 generations to better match their environment. We live in a VERY different world now.

hoka-one-one 5y ago
Can you cite some sources please? I've tasted some very sweet wild berries.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  And I had some very sour apples so I think our anecdata cancel each other.
  - RugnirViking 5y ago
    The existance of fruit that isn't sweet is not a counter example to the fact that sweet fruit exists at all
- shlant 5y ago
  here is some info refuting that often parroted myth: 1. https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 2. https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/ https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
chmod600 5y ago
While I'm sure not everyone had access to sweet fruit all the time, are you sure it was really so rare? Fruit is meant to be eaten, so as long as plants have the spare energy, I don't see why they wouldn't make lots of appealing fruit. Veggies would make more sense to be bitter. Also, where did you get 1000 generations from? That's 20000 years in one place. It seems like a lot of humans would be a lot more mobile than that.
- yosito 5y ago
  > Fruit is meant to be eaten Meant by who? Evolution don't give a fuck...
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    I thought the whole evolutionary advantage was that animals spread the seeds around after eating the fruit, making survival much more likely. So not 'meant to be eaten' as in intentional choices, but meant to be eaten as in - this is why its an evolutionary advantage.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    By the plant. The plant that is driven by its genes to maximize its offspring.
55555 5y ago
This is a myth. I think 10,000 years ago there were only 2 million humans walking the earth. Fruit trees growing on uninhabited islands today have delicious sweet mangos. Fruits which exist but have never been cultivated at scale are also deliciously sweet.
- shlant 5y ago
  yea just come to Borneo and try some of the native fruits to see how wrong that myth is ;)
redis_mlc 5y ago
> Earlier fruits didn't have anywhere near the sugar content of the cultivated ones today. In fact, many fruits of old were inedible I have heard that cereal crops (wheat, corn) were basically grass before farming started. This was a disadvantage for Aztecs and Mayans since it took a while for humans to migrate there, and then to cultivate them to a useful efficiency level.
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
In addition to things other folks have said: Honey has existed for quite some time, because bees have existed for quite some time. Honey is pretty full of sugary goodness.
shlant 5y ago
> Earlier fruits didn't have anywhere near the sugar content of the cultivated ones today This is not substantiated[1][2] 1. https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1149968041964396545 2. https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/ https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/

jimmyneptune 5y ago

The fruit we have today is so much higher in sugar than back in times when the vision evolved.

pillefitz 5y ago

Not starving >> slight brain fog

guerrilla 5y ago

Fruit comes with fiberand vitamins. I suspect that's the real difference.