5 ms·

FVWM and the quest for a comfortable NetBSD desktop

73 points by jayp1418 5y ago

signa11 5y ago
i have found this : http://zensites.net/fvwm/guide/ http://zensites.net/fvwm/guide/ to be quite a valuable resource as well for fvwm.
icy 5y ago
If you're looking for something simpler, with a sane out-of-the-box config, consider OpenBSD's cwm(1) -- the calm window manager. A portable version for Linux/BSD is available at https://github.com/leahneukirchen/cwm https://github.com/leahneukirchen/cwm
- bArray 5y ago
  I really believe that especially for something like a GUI, you should have a screenshot(s) on the readme. I am generally looking for a lighter Window Manager based on wm2 [1] [2]... I even began writing one myself as I got tired of the normal options being really heavy. Currently working on modernizing it for touch/mouse dual input (no mode switching). FYI, the last shipped wm2 has tonnes of performance bugs I have been slowly working through. [1] www.all-day-breakfast.com/wm2/ [2] https://www.all-day-breakfast.com/wm2/wm2-pic.gif https://www.all-day-breakfast.com/wm2/wm2-pic.gif
  - icy 5y ago
    It's a floating window manager that ... manages windows. As such, it can look wildly different, from config to config. Anyway, here's what mine looks like: https://i.arxius.io/14498fe6.png https://i.arxius.io/14498fe6.png
    - bArray 5y ago
      Very nice, I appreciate the minimalism. Thank you for sharing!
- rnd0 5y ago
  Isn't that the default WM on NetBSD 9 and later now? That kind of confused me when I saw the article title -like, why go back to FVWM when there's CWM right there?
  - jayp1418 5y ago
    NetBSD default is CTWM https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/default_window_manager_switched_to https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/default_window_manager_swi...
gmueckl 5y ago
FVWM is still around? It was part of my first X11 desktop around 1996. I remember it as one of the more powerful WMs back in the day.
- hansel_der 5y ago
  most software doesn't go anywhere, people loose interest and reinvent it after it's been forgotten by a majority.
- a-dub 5y ago
  lol same here. i think fvwm2 was my favorite. i remember it took some time to customize. it was right before everyone went nuts with the alpha blending terminals and enlightenment wm and all that craziness. (i never got into that... too slow and buggy!) i was a big fan of the one that looked like nextstep though. reminded me of my old next slab i picked up in high school.
jm2dev 5y ago
I came back to fvwm, previously using cwm and spectrwm, just because I found annoying to lose control of my wm after sharing screen on zoom (a must have due to working remotely). Very happy with it, particularly after giving it a old school unix twist with https://github.com/yaoguai/fvwm-min https://github.com/yaoguai/fvwm-min
Ericson2314 5y ago
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/os-specific/bsd/netbsd/default.nix https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/os-specifi... well, we've been taking some baby steps towards being kernel-agnostic. That's one way to tackle this.
- rjsw 5y ago
  NetBSD already has pkgsrc [1]. [1] https://www.pkgsrc.org/ https://www.pkgsrc.org/
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    Sure, but while it's great that pkgsrc is already multi-unix, neither NetBSD or SmartOS are known for GUI support!
    - rjsw 5y ago
      That is a caused by the difficulty of porting the kernel DRM code, an alternative package system won't fix that. I'm typing this on a NetBSD desktop system running latest Firefox, LibreOffice etc...
      - Ericson2314 5y ago
        Fair enough :)
    - jayp1418 5y ago
      Gnome40 available on pkgsrc wip for NetBSD :)
tnzm 5y ago
Is there another "scrolling" window manager like FVWM which gives you a workspace larger than your screen but doesn't have an impenetrable configuration DSL?
frankohn 5y ago
I am surprised FVWM is still around. It was the first window manager I was exposed to in the 90s and my experience was very negative. Its default configuration was terribly ugly and the software expose a bazillion of option to the user for customizing. At the time this seemed sort of cool but I learnt it is just very bad as it take a lot of your time to customize things and at the end it still looks amateurish. Since then I consider good software those that have sane defaults out of the box and have only as few options as possible and only for doing useful customization. I generally consider as bad software those that omit to take decisions and leave to the user the responsibility by exposing all the minute options. FVWM was a sort of champion in this respect.
- coldtea 5y ago
  To contrast, I have very fond memories of FVWM from the nineties, always liked its minimalism and default "padded" look (I mean the beleved buttons and bars -- basically what the use in the current website as its theme: https://www.fvwm.org/ https://www.fvwm.org/ ). FVWM was no-fuss to get things done, Englitenment and co were for the more Emo-types who liked "edgy" themes. Later, I also used Windowmaker and Blackbox, and at some point I gave up and had a full-on KDE as the desktop.
  - frankohn 5y ago
    I moved to WindowMaker that I loved for its elegance and to icewm. This latter had none of the elegance of windowmaker but it used very low memory resources and had a decent windows-like look. I considered blackbox and tried to use it but it was too minimalist for me. In any case I never looked back to fvwm.

73 points by jayp1418 5y ago

i have found this : http://zensites.net/fvwm/guide/ http://zensites.net/fvwm/guide/ to be quite a valuable resource as well for fvwm.

icy 5y ago

If you're looking for something simpler, with a sane out-of-the-box config, consider OpenBSD's cwm(1) -- the calm window manager. A portable version for Linux/BSD is available at https://github.com/leahneukirchen/cwm https://github.com/leahneukirchen/cwm

bArray 5y ago
I really believe that especially for something like a GUI, you should have a screenshot(s) on the readme. I am generally looking for a lighter Window Manager based on wm2 [1] [2]... I even began writing one myself as I got tired of the normal options being really heavy. Currently working on modernizing it for touch/mouse dual input (no mode switching). FYI, the last shipped wm2 has tonnes of performance bugs I have been slowly working through. [1] www.all-day-breakfast.com/wm2/ [2] https://www.all-day-breakfast.com/wm2/wm2-pic.gif https://www.all-day-breakfast.com/wm2/wm2-pic.gif
- icy 5y ago
  It's a floating window manager that ... manages windows. As such, it can look wildly different, from config to config. Anyway, here's what mine looks like: https://i.arxius.io/14498fe6.png https://i.arxius.io/14498fe6.png
  - bArray 5y ago
    Very nice, I appreciate the minimalism. Thank you for sharing!
rnd0 5y ago
Isn't that the default WM on NetBSD 9 and later now? That kind of confused me when I saw the article title -like, why go back to FVWM when there's CWM right there?
- jayp1418 5y ago
  NetBSD default is CTWM https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/default_window_manager_switched_to https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/default_window_manager_swi...

gmueckl 5y ago

FVWM is still around? It was part of my first X11 desktop around 1996. I remember it as one of the more powerful WMs back in the day.

hansel_der 5y ago
most software doesn't go anywhere, people loose interest and reinvent it after it's been forgotten by a majority.
a-dub 5y ago
lol same here. i think fvwm2 was my favorite. i remember it took some time to customize. it was right before everyone went nuts with the alpha blending terminals and enlightenment wm and all that craziness. (i never got into that... too slow and buggy!) i was a big fan of the one that looked like nextstep though. reminded me of my old next slab i picked up in high school.

jm2dev 5y ago

I came back to fvwm, previously using cwm and spectrwm, just because I found annoying to lose control of my wm after sharing screen on zoom (a must have due to working remotely). Very happy with it, particularly after giving it a old school unix twist with https://github.com/yaoguai/fvwm-min https://github.com/yaoguai/fvwm-min

Ericson2314 5y ago

https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/os-specific/bsd/netbsd/default.nix https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/os-specifi... well, we've been taking some baby steps towards being kernel-agnostic. That's one way to tackle this.

rjsw 5y ago
NetBSD already has pkgsrc [1]. [1] https://www.pkgsrc.org/ https://www.pkgsrc.org/
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  Sure, but while it's great that pkgsrc is already multi-unix, neither NetBSD or SmartOS are known for GUI support!
  - rjsw 5y ago
    That is a caused by the difficulty of porting the kernel DRM code, an alternative package system won't fix that. I'm typing this on a NetBSD desktop system running latest Firefox, LibreOffice etc...
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      Fair enough :)
  - jayp1418 5y ago
    Gnome40 available on pkgsrc wip for NetBSD :)

tnzm 5y ago

Is there another "scrolling" window manager like FVWM which gives you a workspace larger than your screen but doesn't have an impenetrable configuration DSL?

frankohn 5y ago

I am surprised FVWM is still around. It was the first window manager I was exposed to in the 90s and my experience was very negative. Its default configuration was terribly ugly and the software expose a bazillion of option to the user for customizing. At the time this seemed sort of cool but I learnt it is just very bad as it take a lot of your time to customize things and at the end it still looks amateurish. Since then I consider good software those that have sane defaults out of the box and have only as few options as possible and only for doing useful customization. I generally consider as bad software those that omit to take decisions and leave to the user the responsibility by exposing all the minute options. FVWM was a sort of champion in this respect.

coldtea 5y ago
To contrast, I have very fond memories of FVWM from the nineties, always liked its minimalism and default "padded" look (I mean the beleved buttons and bars -- basically what the use in the current website as its theme: https://www.fvwm.org/ https://www.fvwm.org/ ). FVWM was no-fuss to get things done, Englitenment and co were for the more Emo-types who liked "edgy" themes. Later, I also used Windowmaker and Blackbox, and at some point I gave up and had a full-on KDE as the desktop.
- frankohn 5y ago
  I moved to WindowMaker that I loved for its elegance and to icewm. This latter had none of the elegance of windowmaker but it used very low memory resources and had a decent windows-like look. I considered blackbox and tried to use it but it was too minimalist for me. In any case I never looked back to fvwm.