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I would refer people to the dual definitions of the word "Talmudic"[1] for further proof of this: 1. of or relating to the Talmud (the collection of Jewish law

by slg 6y ago

I would refer people to the dual definitions of the word "Talmudic"[1] for further proof of this: 1. of or relating to the Talmud (the collection of Jewish law and tradition) 2. characterized by or making extremely fine distinctions; overly detailed or subtle; hairsplitting. It is extremely difficult to translate rules that were written thousands of years ago into guidance on modern life. Much of Jewish religious tradition has therefore embraced the debate, theorizing, and further definition of these rules into something that is more clear, logical, and can be practically applied by people who wish to follow them. "Does electricity count as fire?" might seem like an arbitrary and non-sensical question to someone on the outside, but it is incredibly important to how a modern Orthodox Jewish person would practice their religion and they therefore need an answer to it. "Trying to rules lawyer god" through debate and writing on the subject seems like one of the better ways to reach a satisfying and conclusive answer to this style of question. [1] - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/talmudic https://www.dictionary.com/browse/talmudic

rtkwe 6y ago
The parts where it goes from 'seriously trying to follow the precepts of my religion' to 'rules lawyering' to me is the stuff like the eruv that encircles most of Manhattan [0] extending the 'private' zone where jews are allowed to carry things on the Sabbath or the decision that you can keep food warm in an oven so long as you take it all out at once so the additional burning that takes place after you open the door (your actions changing the functioning of the machine) is wasted and therefor unintentional (similar to the Sabbath mode on elevators). [0] https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-enci...
- pugio 6y ago
  Both of the cases you mention are still 'seriously trying to follow the precepts' (for many Jews, at least). A lot of (Orthodox) Jews seem to have this idea that an Eruv is this big wink-wink-nod-nod loophole which blatantly circumvents a biblical prohibition through somewhat arbitrary (ie. Lacking in essential religious meaning) legal gymnastics. This is not the case. An Eruv is actually a beautiful example of the halakhic (translate: "Jewish law") process working as it's supposed to. Its implementation combines sharp hermeneutics with a sensitivity to the needs of real communities and a strong understanding of the meta-halakhic principles which drive the entire process I'm not really sure if a sub- comment on HN is the right place to expand on this, but I'm happy to discuss it via some other medium.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    > I'm not really sure if a sub- comment on HN is the right place to expand on this, but I'm happy to discuss it via some other medium. I'm interested in subscribing to whatever that turns out to be.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      You know, I realize it's karmic suicide and fairly gauche to complain about downvotes on HN, but who the hell downvotes this? Seriously, people. Who? Edit after 1 hour: Maybe the same people who downvote this? lol You know, when a legitimate and curiosity-motivated request for information such as the parent of this comment is downvoted, you know there's a problem with the forum.

by slg 6y ago

rtkwe 6y ago

The parts where it goes from 'seriously trying to follow the precepts of my religion' to 'rules lawyering' to me is the stuff like the eruv that encircles most of Manhattan [0] extending the 'private' zone where jews are allowed to carry things on the Sabbath or the decision that you can keep food warm in an oven so long as you take it all out at once so the additional burning that takes place after you open the door (your actions changing the functioning of the machine) is wasted and therefor unintentional (similar to the Sabbath mode on elevators). [0] https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-enci...

pugio 6y ago
Both of the cases you mention are still 'seriously trying to follow the precepts' (for many Jews, at least). A lot of (Orthodox) Jews seem to have this idea that an Eruv is this big wink-wink-nod-nod loophole which blatantly circumvents a biblical prohibition through somewhat arbitrary (ie. Lacking in essential religious meaning) legal gymnastics. This is not the case. An Eruv is actually a beautiful example of the halakhic (translate: "Jewish law") process working as it's supposed to. Its implementation combines sharp hermeneutics with a sensitivity to the needs of real communities and a strong understanding of the meta-halakhic principles which drive the entire process I'm not really sure if a sub- comment on HN is the right place to expand on this, but I'm happy to discuss it via some other medium.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  > I'm not really sure if a sub- comment on HN is the right place to expand on this, but I'm happy to discuss it via some other medium. I'm interested in subscribing to whatever that turns out to be.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    You know, I realize it's karmic suicide and fairly gauche to complain about downvotes on HN, but who the hell downvotes this? Seriously, people. Who? Edit after 1 hour: Maybe the same people who downvote this? lol You know, when a legitimate and curiosity-motivated request for information such as the parent of this comment is downvoted, you know there's a problem with the forum.