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If there is a message here beyond the usual "you are the product", it's obscured by the author's choice of language. I'm not sure what "the algorithm" is, but c

by Tronno 5y ago

If there is a message here beyond the usual "you are the product", it's obscured by the author's choice of language. I'm not sure what "the algorithm" is, but clearly it's sentient, malevolent, and out to get me.

leipert 5y ago
I don’t think that the algorithm is sentient, malevolent and out to get you. This also isn’t the vibe I got from TFA. Maybe a good analogy is the Paperclip Maximizer. But instead of maximizing for paper clips, it is maximizing online time of everyone involved. For me the “you are the product” argument usually is countered like: “I don’t mind seeing adverts for things I like, I might get great deals”. The article isn’t really about that, but that the platforms by keeping you online draw you into arguments that aren’t good for you.
- potsandpans 5y ago
  > I don't think that the algorithm is sentient... Thats not how I read what the commentor is describing. It doesn't need to be any of those things to display emergent properties
Diogenetics 5y ago
The Algorithm as I understand it (not the author) is essentially equivalent to the nature of the One Ring in Lord of the Rings. One can attempt to do good with it, but it ultimately twists motives to its own goals: using itself more. The more time spent on the Internet looking for things you want, the more information you generate to enable the Algorithm to make things that you don't consciously know that you want--so long as you stay online. These could be savior fantasies, delusory persecution complexes, social approval, lootbox-style dopamine mining, etc, but it reduces to the Internet providing what the user actually unconsciously wants in a hedonic escalation with the ultimate goal of keeping the user online. This transcends the usual "you are the product" rhetoric. This isn't about for-profit dark patterns; this is about a non-fictional Infinite Jest taking over, with the warning that eventually the Algorithm will find your bespoke lever that you can't volitionally turn off or turn away from to keep you online in perpetuity. I personally imagine this is similar to the nature of the conscious mind, so not unique to the Internet, but yeah.

by Tronno 5y ago

leipert 5y ago

I don’t think that the algorithm is sentient, malevolent and out to get you. This also isn’t the vibe I got from TFA. Maybe a good analogy is the Paperclip Maximizer. But instead of maximizing for paper clips, it is maximizing online time of everyone involved. For me the “you are the product” argument usually is countered like: “I don’t mind seeing adverts for things I like, I might get great deals”. The article isn’t really about that, but that the platforms by keeping you online draw you into arguments that aren’t good for you.

potsandpans 5y ago
> I don't think that the algorithm is sentient... Thats not how I read what the commentor is describing. It doesn't need to be any of those things to display emergent properties

Diogenetics 5y ago

The Algorithm as I understand it (not the author) is essentially equivalent to the nature of the One Ring in Lord of the Rings. One can attempt to do good with it, but it ultimately twists motives to its own goals: using itself more. The more time spent on the Internet looking for things you want, the more information you generate to enable the Algorithm to make things that you don't consciously know that you want--so long as you stay online. These could be savior fantasies, delusory persecution complexes, social approval, lootbox-style dopamine mining, etc, but it reduces to the Internet providing what the user actually unconsciously wants in a hedonic escalation with the ultimate goal of keeping the user online. This transcends the usual "you are the product" rhetoric. This isn't about for-profit dark patterns; this is about a non-fictional Infinite Jest taking over, with the warning that eventually the Algorithm will find your bespoke lever that you can't volitionally turn off or turn away from to keep you online in perpetuity. I personally imagine this is similar to the nature of the conscious mind, so not unique to the Internet, but yeah.