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> even the people building it don't seem to use it This is a (unintentional, perhaps) statement of FUD based on your perception, and not based on reality. I c
by riffic 6y ago
> even the people building it don't seem to use it
This is a (unintentional, perhaps) statement of FUD based on your perception, and not based on reality.
I came across a pretty good quote the other day in relation to the ActivityPub space which struck a chord: "A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law
- yosito 6y ago> not based on reality Show me a federated network that people are actually using in reality.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rapnie 6y agoMatrix, mastodon, pleroma, peertube, pixelfed, scuttlebutt, ... (these all have their builders as active users AFAIK)
- riffic 6y agoI was going to be rude and say that the burden of proof wasn't upon me, but well, you beat me to the punch. Let me add another one or two. How about SMTP and BGP?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- networkimprov 6y agoThe incredibly damaging and widespread exploitation of SMTP for cybercrime (via phishing, etc) implies that the correct model for Internet messaging is non-federated, i.e. more like HTTP than SMTP. That's not to say that federation isn't valuable in other applications, e.g. social media. Federation in SMTP was necessary given the Internet's topology when email was invented. That network is long gone. See TMTP, from the mnm open source project, which implements both the client & server: https://mnmnotmail.org/ https://mnmnotmail.org/
- giantrobot 6y agoI don't think federation is the core issue with e-mail. I see the core problem as terrible MUAs don't use nearly enough signals to interpret identity of senders. SMTP has means to identify servers and domain ownership, web browsers have infrastructure to identify and verify arbitrary websites, and S/MIME exists. Most MUAs ignore basically all of this and instead trust whatever address is in a message's From header.
- networkimprov 6y agoMost phishing attacks originate on webmail accounts, which implement DMARC.
- giantrobot 6y agoDMARC is only as effective as the domain's suggested policy and the receiving server doing the right thing. It also doesn't have much if anything to do with the MUAs as they don't see any of the SPF/DKIM operations happening. DMARC doesn't do and isn't intended to do anything to verify the content or validity of an individual message.
- josephg 6y agoI strongly disagree. If email was non-federated (like HTTP) then either it wouldn't be so ubiquitous, or a single company would control the digital communication of most of the world's citizens. Either of those outcomes would result in a poorer world. The fact that facebook, telegram, whatsapp, etc are all centralized doesn't seem to stop criminals using those platforms.
- doublepg23 6y ago> or a single company would control the digital communication of most of the world's citizens. I agree with your point but has this not happened with Gmail, Microsoft and Yahoo! for email anyway?
- 6y ago
- ryukafalz 6y agoNot only their builders; I'm an active user of Matrix and Mastodon and both are far far more popular than just those interested in the tech.
- esjeon 6y agoI think maybe you're being too harsh in your comment, by calling an partial observation "FUD". It's true that there are many dead toy implementations, and many servers don't display content on the main pages, so it's actually quite easy for first-comers to think the network is dead. (and I did too years back.)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]