5 ms·

This is a nice list of federated networks. Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns. A lot of them have home pages with marketing content but that don't show a

by yosito 6y ago

This is a nice list of federated networks. Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns. A lot of them have home pages with marketing content but that don't show any easy way to get to network content. Others have content and links to founders profiles that haven't been updated in years. It's really hard to get excited about many of these when even the people building it don't seem to use it.

cyberlab 6y ago
> Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns That is why I think we are still in early days of the (fediverse-powered) web. All this fringe tech will blossom eventually and we can live the 'decentralists dream' we all seem to be pushing for. Give it time. Yes, effort is still needed, and we all need to do our part to make it work, but simply being patient too, waiting for all this tech to bloom will be worth it.
- dwighttk 6y ago
  …year of Linux on the desktop
  - detaro 6y ago
    Pretty much the same applies: I'm quite happy with my Linux desktop, I don't need it to dominate the world to be useful. (for social stuff of course additional network effects apply, but if you are in the right communities that's easily hit)
    - Miraste 6y ago
      That’s fine for Linux but it doesn’t work so well for networks.
  - the_local_host 6y ago
    Linux desktop/laptop is actually pretty usable nowadays - installing Ubuntu on a laptop is much less of an "adventure" than it used to be, with fewer incantations needed to get things working.
    - the_local_host 6y ago
      In fact I just installed Ubuntu on a laptop this evening, and it worked really well. (I did make sure others had met with success with this specific model of laptop before I tried it though.) Things have come a long way since "linux on the desktop" first emerged as a meme.
    - eitland 6y ago
      FWIW I've considered Linux better for my purposes since 15 or so years ago and easier than Windows since over a decade ago when I had to spend 4 hours to "configure" an OEM install. (That included everything from I clicked the button until I had uninstalled McAfee and every other useless thing but still.)
riffic 6y ago
> even the people building it don't seem to use it This is a (unintentional, perhaps) statement of FUD based on your perception, and not based on reality. I came across a pretty good quote the other day in relation to the ActivityPub space which struck a chord: "A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law
- yosito 6y ago
  > not based on reality Show me a federated network that people are actually using in reality.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rapnie 6y ago
    Matrix, mastodon, pleroma, peertube, pixelfed, scuttlebutt, ... (these all have their builders as active users AFAIK)
    - riffic 6y ago
      I was going to be rude and say that the burden of proof wasn't upon me, but well, you beat me to the punch. Let me add another one or two. How about SMTP and BGP?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - networkimprov 6y ago
        The incredibly damaging and widespread exploitation of SMTP for cybercrime (via phishing, etc) implies that the correct model for Internet messaging is non-federated, i.e. more like HTTP than SMTP. That's not to say that federation isn't valuable in other applications, e.g. social media. Federation in SMTP was necessary given the Internet's topology when email was invented. That network is long gone. See TMTP, from the mnm open source project, which implements both the client & server: https://mnmnotmail.org/ https://mnmnotmail.org/
Seirdy 6y ago
This has not been my experience. On public timelines of instances with even moderately popular users, the public timelines get messages minutes or seconds apart. Plenty of users have hundreds (or in the case of some admins and fediverse devs, thousands) of followers. It's a thriving community.
ampdepolymerase 6y ago
Gab is living testimony that an AGPL-powered Fediverse can be successful.
nichos 6y ago
If you haven't, try mastodon. There great conversations happening over there, depending on the instance. If you're interested in FOSS check out fosstadon
- rapnie 6y ago
  I'd say just try any of the microblogging-capable federated apps, and weigh them on their pros and cons. Like Pleroma for instance. Mastodon is by far the most popular app. A lot of that is by better productization and name recognition, leading to network effects. Downside to that for the Fediverse is that many newcomers think Mastodon === Fediverse, and don't discover all it has to offer. For devs willing to contribute, or start their own federated projects, there's much to choose from and build upon. There is much untapped potential in the under-used Linked Data aspects of the specification. To build entirely different app types and protocols that interoperate (which need not necessarily be with entire fediverse). ForgeFed is an example of this. https://forgefed.peers.community https://forgefed.peers.community

by yosito 6y ago

cyberlab 6y ago

> Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns That is why I think we are still in early days of the (fediverse-powered) web. All this fringe tech will blossom eventually and we can live the 'decentralists dream' we all seem to be pushing for. Give it time. Yes, effort is still needed, and we all need to do our part to make it work, but simply being patient too, waiting for all this tech to bloom will be worth it.

dwighttk 6y ago
…year of Linux on the desktop
- detaro 6y ago
  Pretty much the same applies: I'm quite happy with my Linux desktop, I don't need it to dominate the world to be useful. (for social stuff of course additional network effects apply, but if you are in the right communities that's easily hit)
  - Miraste 6y ago
    That’s fine for Linux but it doesn’t work so well for networks.
- the_local_host 6y ago
  Linux desktop/laptop is actually pretty usable nowadays - installing Ubuntu on a laptop is much less of an "adventure" than it used to be, with fewer incantations needed to get things working.
  - the_local_host 6y ago
    In fact I just installed Ubuntu on a laptop this evening, and it worked really well. (I did make sure others had met with success with this specific model of laptop before I tried it though.) Things have come a long way since "linux on the desktop" first emerged as a meme.
  - eitland 6y ago
    FWIW I've considered Linux better for my purposes since 15 or so years ago and easier than Windows since over a decade ago when I had to spend 4 hours to "configure" an OEM install. (That included everything from I clicked the button until I had uninstalled McAfee and every other useless thing but still.)

riffic 6y ago

> even the people building it don't seem to use it This is a (unintentional, perhaps) statement of FUD based on your perception, and not based on reality. I came across a pretty good quote the other day in relation to the ActivityPub space which struck a chord: "A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law

yosito 6y ago
> not based on reality Show me a federated network that people are actually using in reality.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rapnie 6y ago
  Matrix, mastodon, pleroma, peertube, pixelfed, scuttlebutt, ... (these all have their builders as active users AFAIK)
  - riffic 6y ago
    I was going to be rude and say that the burden of proof wasn't upon me, but well, you beat me to the punch. Let me add another one or two. How about SMTP and BGP?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - networkimprov 6y ago
      The incredibly damaging and widespread exploitation of SMTP for cybercrime (via phishing, etc) implies that the correct model for Internet messaging is non-federated, i.e. more like HTTP than SMTP. That's not to say that federation isn't valuable in other applications, e.g. social media. Federation in SMTP was necessary given the Internet's topology when email was invented. That network is long gone. See TMTP, from the mnm open source project, which implements both the client & server: https://mnmnotmail.org/ https://mnmnotmail.org/

Seirdy 6y ago

This has not been my experience. On public timelines of instances with even moderately popular users, the public timelines get messages minutes or seconds apart. Plenty of users have hundreds (or in the case of some admins and fediverse devs, thousands) of followers. It's a thriving community.

ampdepolymerase 6y ago

Gab is living testimony that an AGPL-powered Fediverse can be successful.

nichos 6y ago

If you haven't, try mastodon. There great conversations happening over there, depending on the instance. If you're interested in FOSS check out fosstadon

rapnie 6y ago
I'd say just try any of the microblogging-capable federated apps, and weigh them on their pros and cons. Like Pleroma for instance. Mastodon is by far the most popular app. A lot of that is by better productization and name recognition, leading to network effects. Downside to that for the Fediverse is that many newcomers think Mastodon === Fediverse, and don't discover all it has to offer. For devs willing to contribute, or start their own federated projects, there's much to choose from and build upon. There is much untapped potential in the under-used Linked Data aspects of the specification. To build entirely different app types and protocols that interoperate (which need not necessarily be with entire fediverse). ForgeFed is an example of this. https://forgefed.peers.community https://forgefed.peers.community