8 ms·

Fediverse.Party – Explore Federated Networks

181 points by eitland 6y ago

fsflover 6y ago
Another link to explore the federation: https://the-federation.info/ https://the-federation.info/.
- mynameismonkey 6y ago
  Here's a map of services I built for those looking the connect locally: http://u.osmfr.org/m/550053/ http://u.osmfr.org/m/550053/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rapnie 6y ago
Note also the wiki for the site, where more apps are tracked from early development until they are ready to be added to the directory. https://git.feneas.org/feneas/fediverse/-/wikis/home https://git.feneas.org/feneas/fediverse/-/wikis/home
riffic 6y ago
I keep saying this particular ecosystem is healthy and vibrant.
yosito 6y ago
This is a nice list of federated networks. Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns. A lot of them have home pages with marketing content but that don't show any easy way to get to network content. Others have content and links to founders profiles that haven't been updated in years. It's really hard to get excited about many of these when even the people building it don't seem to use it.
- cyberlab 6y ago
  > Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns That is why I think we are still in early days of the (fediverse-powered) web. All this fringe tech will blossom eventually and we can live the 'decentralists dream' we all seem to be pushing for. Give it time. Yes, effort is still needed, and we all need to do our part to make it work, but simply being patient too, waiting for all this tech to bloom will be worth it.
  - dwighttk 6y ago
    …year of Linux on the desktop
    - detaro 6y ago
      Pretty much the same applies: I'm quite happy with my Linux desktop, I don't need it to dominate the world to be useful. (for social stuff of course additional network effects apply, but if you are in the right communities that's easily hit)
      - Miraste 6y ago
        That’s fine for Linux but it doesn’t work so well for networks.
    - the_local_host 6y ago
      Linux desktop/laptop is actually pretty usable nowadays - installing Ubuntu on a laptop is much less of an "adventure" than it used to be, with fewer incantations needed to get things working.
      - the_local_host 6y ago
        In fact I just installed Ubuntu on a laptop this evening, and it worked really well. (I did make sure others had met with success with this specific model of laptop before I tried it though.) Things have come a long way since "linux on the desktop" first emerged as a meme.
      - 6y ago
- riffic 6y ago
  > even the people building it don't seem to use it This is a (unintentional, perhaps) statement of FUD based on your perception, and not based on reality. I came across a pretty good quote the other day in relation to the ActivityPub space which struck a chord: "A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law
  - yosito 6y ago
    > not based on reality Show me a federated network that people are actually using in reality.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - rapnie 6y ago
      Matrix, mastodon, pleroma, peertube, pixelfed, scuttlebutt, ... (these all have their builders as active users AFAIK)
      - riffic 6y ago
        I was going to be rude and say that the burden of proof wasn't upon me, but well, you beat me to the punch. Let me add another one or two. How about SMTP and BGP?
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        networkimprov 6y ago
        The incredibly damaging and widespread exploitation of SMTP for cybercrime (via phishing, etc) implies that the correct model for Internet messaging is non-federated, i.e. more like HTTP than SMTP. That's not to say that federation isn't valuable in other applications, e.g. social media. Federation in SMTP was necessary given the Internet's topology when email was invented. That network is long gone. See TMTP, from the mnm open source project, which implements both the client & server: https://mnmnotmail.org/ https://mnmnotmail.org/
- Seirdy 6y ago
  This has not been my experience. On public timelines of instances with even moderately popular users, the public timelines get messages minutes or seconds apart. Plenty of users have hundreds (or in the case of some admins and fediverse devs, thousands) of followers. It's a thriving community.
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Gab is living testimony that an AGPL-powered Fediverse can be successful.
- nichos 6y ago
  If you haven't, try mastodon. There great conversations happening over there, depending on the instance. If you're interested in FOSS check out fosstadon
  - rapnie 6y ago
    I'd say just try any of the microblogging-capable federated apps, and weigh them on their pros and cons. Like Pleroma for instance. Mastodon is by far the most popular app. A lot of that is by better productization and name recognition, leading to network effects. Downside to that for the Fediverse is that many newcomers think Mastodon === Fediverse, and don't discover all it has to offer. For devs willing to contribute, or start their own federated projects, there's much to choose from and build upon. There is much untapped potential in the under-used Linked Data aspects of the specification. To build entirely different app types and protocols that interoperate (which need not necessarily be with entire fediverse). ForgeFed is an example of this. https://forgefed.peers.community https://forgefed.peers.community
atweiden 6y ago
It’s notable how prevalent AGPLv3 licensing is all throughout the Fediverse. This, and the fact user accounts are decoupled from the federated frontends present a radically different incentive structure for providers compared to the traditional model of social media. You can feel the impact this has when browsing PeerTube: eclectic videos — a good sign of a burgeoning ecosystem — but with video buffering rates seemingly decades behind YT. I’m actually a huge fan of the fediverse. But if PeerTube in particular wants to hit it big, there are some serious scalability issues which need to be addressed, despite fediverse development being largely antithetical to profit.
- mattl 6y ago
  Mastodon was very nearly not AGPL. I asked them to fix it very early on. Issue 1 or 2 on the GitHub tracker. Edit: 49. https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49
  - riffic 6y ago
    for someone who doesn't know better, what is the benefit to AGPL and what license were they using originally? found the issue btw: https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49
    - Seirdy 6y ago
      Software that isn't executed on a user's machine is out of the user's control. The GNU AGPL redefines distribution to include serving over a network so that software served over a network must disclose source code as well (unminified JS, server-side code, etc). It's also copyleft, which is good: the purpose of permissive licenses is to enable proprietary derivatives, which is against the spirit of the Fediverse.
      - square_usual 6y ago
        One interesting consequence of Mastodon's AGPL licensing is that Gab, the right-wing twitter clone that runs a Mastodon fork, also has to disclose its source. That was how people found a vulnerability in Gab that allowed the recent "hack".
anotha1 6y ago
What is a federated network? For what reasons do I want to explore them? Thanks!
- phailhaus 6y ago
  Seconded! I honestly don't know what this is, and it looks like the site doesn't try to explain it at all. :/
  - iamevn 6y ago
    A federated network is a group of systems that agree on a protocol to communicate and share resources. Email is one of the classic examples where. Anyone can build and run their own mail server. As long as a server supports SMTP, users on it server can communicate with users on any other email server. No need for special cases which depend on which server you're sending mail to.
    - eitland 6y ago
      Good answer. Email is the classic example. I'd like to add another to more clearly show whatvis new here: Mastodon is like Twitter, except anyone can host their own instance and you (and others) can follow each other across instances, just like mail in iamevn's example. Pixelfed does the same for images, it is kind of an Instagram clone where you can follow others. Writefreely enables the the same for blogging. Also to the degree it is practically possible it is often possible to follow accounts across types, for example a Mastodon account can follow a Writefreely account. Oh, and they are mostly (all?) open source, and since everyone can create their own instance it is harder to block out people (you can of course block people you find annoying etc, but Mastodon cannot receive a request from a government and suddenly you are thrown out from the network, they have to apply pressure to every instance around the world and then you could always create your own instance.) If you think this sounds insanely cool then you are right. There are a list of names elsewhere in the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27010161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27010161
dang 6y ago
Some past related threads: Fediverse in 2020 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25849533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25849533 - Jan 2021 (99 comments) Fediverse – Federated social networks running on free open software - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16667050 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16667050 - March 2018 (69 comments) More generally: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Fediverse%20comments%3E0&sort=byDate&type=story&storyText=none https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
egberts1 6y ago
As one who groks network protocols for a living, Matrix is conspicuously missing. Matrix is the one protocol that actually passes all the litmus tests (at least my litmus test). This website needs to explain that. https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Matrix https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Matrix https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Zot_Communications_Protocol https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Zot_Communications_Protocol https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/OStatus https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/OStatus

181 points by eitland 6y ago

fsflover 6y ago

Another link to explore the federation: https://the-federation.info/ https://the-federation.info/.

mynameismonkey 6y ago
Here's a map of services I built for those looking the connect locally: http://u.osmfr.org/m/550053/ http://u.osmfr.org/m/550053/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rapnie 6y ago

Note also the wiki for the site, where more apps are tracked from early development until they are ready to be added to the directory. https://git.feneas.org/feneas/fediverse/-/wikis/home https://git.feneas.org/feneas/fediverse/-/wikis/home

riffic 6y ago

I keep saying this particular ecosystem is healthy and vibrant.

yosito 6y ago

This is a nice list of federated networks. Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns. A lot of them have home pages with marketing content but that don't show any easy way to get to network content. Others have content and links to founders profiles that haven't been updated in years. It's really hard to get excited about many of these when even the people building it don't seem to use it.

cyberlab 6y ago
> Sadly, many of them look like ghost towns That is why I think we are still in early days of the (fediverse-powered) web. All this fringe tech will blossom eventually and we can live the 'decentralists dream' we all seem to be pushing for. Give it time. Yes, effort is still needed, and we all need to do our part to make it work, but simply being patient too, waiting for all this tech to bloom will be worth it.
- dwighttk 6y ago
  …year of Linux on the desktop
  - detaro 6y ago
    Pretty much the same applies: I'm quite happy with my Linux desktop, I don't need it to dominate the world to be useful. (for social stuff of course additional network effects apply, but if you are in the right communities that's easily hit)
    - Miraste 6y ago
      That’s fine for Linux but it doesn’t work so well for networks.
  - the_local_host 6y ago
    Linux desktop/laptop is actually pretty usable nowadays - installing Ubuntu on a laptop is much less of an "adventure" than it used to be, with fewer incantations needed to get things working.
    - the_local_host 6y ago
      In fact I just installed Ubuntu on a laptop this evening, and it worked really well. (I did make sure others had met with success with this specific model of laptop before I tried it though.) Things have come a long way since "linux on the desktop" first emerged as a meme.
    - 6y ago
riffic 6y ago
> even the people building it don't seem to use it This is a (unintentional, perhaps) statement of FUD based on your perception, and not based on reality. I came across a pretty good quote the other day in relation to the ActivityPub space which struck a chord: "A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Ostrom's_law
- yosito 6y ago
  > not based on reality Show me a federated network that people are actually using in reality.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rapnie 6y ago
    Matrix, mastodon, pleroma, peertube, pixelfed, scuttlebutt, ... (these all have their builders as active users AFAIK)
    - riffic 6y ago
      I was going to be rude and say that the burden of proof wasn't upon me, but well, you beat me to the punch. Let me add another one or two. How about SMTP and BGP?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - networkimprov 6y ago
        The incredibly damaging and widespread exploitation of SMTP for cybercrime (via phishing, etc) implies that the correct model for Internet messaging is non-federated, i.e. more like HTTP than SMTP. That's not to say that federation isn't valuable in other applications, e.g. social media. Federation in SMTP was necessary given the Internet's topology when email was invented. That network is long gone. See TMTP, from the mnm open source project, which implements both the client & server: https://mnmnotmail.org/ https://mnmnotmail.org/
Seirdy 6y ago
This has not been my experience. On public timelines of instances with even moderately popular users, the public timelines get messages minutes or seconds apart. Plenty of users have hundreds (or in the case of some admins and fediverse devs, thousands) of followers. It's a thriving community.
ampdepolymerase 6y ago
Gab is living testimony that an AGPL-powered Fediverse can be successful.
nichos 6y ago
If you haven't, try mastodon. There great conversations happening over there, depending on the instance. If you're interested in FOSS check out fosstadon
- rapnie 6y ago
  I'd say just try any of the microblogging-capable federated apps, and weigh them on their pros and cons. Like Pleroma for instance. Mastodon is by far the most popular app. A lot of that is by better productization and name recognition, leading to network effects. Downside to that for the Fediverse is that many newcomers think Mastodon === Fediverse, and don't discover all it has to offer. For devs willing to contribute, or start their own federated projects, there's much to choose from and build upon. There is much untapped potential in the under-used Linked Data aspects of the specification. To build entirely different app types and protocols that interoperate (which need not necessarily be with entire fediverse). ForgeFed is an example of this. https://forgefed.peers.community https://forgefed.peers.community

atweiden 6y ago

It’s notable how prevalent AGPLv3 licensing is all throughout the Fediverse. This, and the fact user accounts are decoupled from the federated frontends present a radically different incentive structure for providers compared to the traditional model of social media. You can feel the impact this has when browsing PeerTube: eclectic videos — a good sign of a burgeoning ecosystem — but with video buffering rates seemingly decades behind YT. I’m actually a huge fan of the fediverse. But if PeerTube in particular wants to hit it big, there are some serious scalability issues which need to be addressed, despite fediverse development being largely antithetical to profit.

mattl 6y ago
Mastodon was very nearly not AGPL. I asked them to fix it very early on. Issue 1 or 2 on the GitHub tracker. Edit: 49. https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49
- riffic 6y ago
  for someone who doesn't know better, what is the benefit to AGPL and what license were they using originally? found the issue btw: https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/49
  - Seirdy 6y ago
    Software that isn't executed on a user's machine is out of the user's control. The GNU AGPL redefines distribution to include serving over a network so that software served over a network must disclose source code as well (unminified JS, server-side code, etc). It's also copyleft, which is good: the purpose of permissive licenses is to enable proprietary derivatives, which is against the spirit of the Fediverse.
    - square_usual 6y ago
      One interesting consequence of Mastodon's AGPL licensing is that Gab, the right-wing twitter clone that runs a Mastodon fork, also has to disclose its source. That was how people found a vulnerability in Gab that allowed the recent "hack".

anotha1 6y ago

What is a federated network? For what reasons do I want to explore them? Thanks!

phailhaus 6y ago
Seconded! I honestly don't know what this is, and it looks like the site doesn't try to explain it at all. :/
- iamevn 6y ago
  A federated network is a group of systems that agree on a protocol to communicate and share resources. Email is one of the classic examples where. Anyone can build and run their own mail server. As long as a server supports SMTP, users on it server can communicate with users on any other email server. No need for special cases which depend on which server you're sending mail to.
  - eitland 6y ago
    Good answer. Email is the classic example. I'd like to add another to more clearly show whatvis new here: Mastodon is like Twitter, except anyone can host their own instance and you (and others) can follow each other across instances, just like mail in iamevn's example. Pixelfed does the same for images, it is kind of an Instagram clone where you can follow others. Writefreely enables the the same for blogging. Also to the degree it is practically possible it is often possible to follow accounts across types, for example a Mastodon account can follow a Writefreely account. Oh, and they are mostly (all?) open source, and since everyone can create their own instance it is harder to block out people (you can of course block people you find annoying etc, but Mastodon cannot receive a request from a government and suddenly you are thrown out from the network, they have to apply pressure to every instance around the world and then you could always create your own instance.) If you think this sounds insanely cool then you are right. There are a list of names elsewhere in the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27010161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27010161

dang 6y ago

Some past related threads: Fediverse in 2020 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25849533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25849533 - Jan 2021 (99 comments) Fediverse – Federated social networks running on free open software - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16667050 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16667050 - March 2018 (69 comments) More generally: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Fediverse%20comments%3E0&sort=byDate&type=story&storyText=none https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

egberts1 6y ago

As one who groks network protocols for a living, Matrix is conspicuously missing. Matrix is the one protocol that actually passes all the litmus tests (at least my litmus test). This website needs to explain that. https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Matrix https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Matrix https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Zot_Communications_Protocol https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Zot_Communications_Protocol https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/OStatus https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/OStatus