4 ms·

As a Googler, I'm pretty disappointed with this plan and I think many colleagues are as well. The office that's being pitched right now has no resemblance whats

As a Googler, I'm pretty disappointed with this plan and I think many colleagues are as well. The office that's being pitched right now has no resemblance whatsoever to the one we left. I just don't see why someone would go through 1+hr commute just to social distance/wear masks, use balloon walls and hotdesk. By now, many of us have gotten a good setup at home and are pretty productive. Even the hybrid model isn't ideal, because you still need to be within commuting distance of the office, if it was something like 2 weeks onsite every 2-3 months, it'd be much more doable imo. For the ones who really miss the office, they should be able to go, but mandatory return-to-office seems far from ideal until mask mandate is over at the very least.

thoweryo2i344 5y ago
> By now, many of us have gotten a good setup at home and are pretty productive. It might be okay for people who've been at Google for a while, but it's really not a very good experience for a Noogler. Google's infrastructure, while amazing, is also one-of-a-kind, which means that you need a lot of internal resources to get up to speed on things, which would go much faster from a face to face interaction. It's nightmare dealing with all this when the only folk with the required know how are some rather unfriendly folk in MTV (who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India).
- throwawaygler1 5y ago
  Fair enough, I can see why it would be beneficial for a noogler, but everyone struggles initially, no matter how much face to face interaction you have. It took me 6+ months before I felt comfortable enough with the internal tools and I'm still learning lots of new things today, despite being 6+ years at the company. The other thing is, even if we went to the office, we won't necessarily be able to have the same face-to-face experience until the mask and social distancing mandates are done with imo. I also felt people disinterested on collaborations, everyone has their own goals, I wouldn't attribute it to your country per say.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I think every company struggles with collaboration in general. People have their "day jobs" so asking them to do something they don't really get "credit" for can be tough. It's easier in-person because you're harder to ignore than an email is. But it can be hard to get support especially from other groups.
- mgraczyk 5y ago
  I joined Google in February and I love working remote. Definitely not excited about the prospect of sitting in traffic for 2 hours a day just to wear a mask at work. I don't work from India, but haven't had much issue with onboarding or access to things.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > some rather unfriendly folk in MTV (who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India). Not sure why the racism, care to back that up?
  - mehphp 5y ago
    He's clearly quoting the racist comment, not being racist themselves.
- dang 5y ago
  > who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India I can empathize with the problems of remote work across national and cultural divides, but please don't toss flamebait like this into HN threads. It leads to flamewars, which we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- brandmeyer 5y ago
  > (who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India) It probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I ran into this attitude frequently when working from a satellite office in the US. Teams worked in constant fear of a defrag (read: their jobs got impactful enough to pull the work into MTV), and we regularly referred to ourselves as a "vassal" office. Teams in the vassal would get assigned sustaining engineering work on systems that the MTV folks didn't want to maintain any more, or product development support work for low-end gear. I was told by a PM once, "how can your team contribute if you aren't in MTV?". There were too many examples to count, and enumerating them all would just turn into a grouch-fest. It also certainly isn't everyone on the campus, but incidents happened often enough to be a sore point. So, yeah. They don't look down on you for being from India. They look down on you because you aren't in MTV.
  - neilv 5y ago
    Do you know whether people based out of the Cambridge/Boston site would be considered second-class citizens today? And if there is a second-class dynamic, would it be in a way that adversely affected the work, directly, or the impact was more about individual treatment? (For example of affecting the work... when collaboration across sites is needed, for the benefit of the org, would there be difficulty getting it to happen, because some were second-class... such as not being taken as seriously, or working with second-class didn't fit well with promotion strategies, etc.)
    - wffurr 5y ago
      I have never particularly felt second class in the Cambridge office. Nor heard anyone complain of being such. There have been a few defrags, but there is a wide array of impactful projects.
olliej 5y ago
while I was there I detested the open plan cube farm horror of their offices (at least the SF ones) they weren't even full cubes, being only half height so constant visual distraction, and they didn't completely surround you so you had people always moving around behind you. Changing how the open plan is arranged is just pointless, accept that you have made an unpleasant work environment and leave it alone so at least people don't have to track whatever new fad you're on. Hotseating makes it even worse, so I can't see why anyone who respected their employees would consider it.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  We were all nostalgic for the half-height cubes of Google SF after it was all converted to no-height non-cubes, just desks on the floor (and they kept making the desks narrower, an inch at a time!).
  - olliej 5y ago
    when did that happen? while I was there I had a "wall" around two sides of my desk but was in a pod (?) of four
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      When I got moved from SPE-2 to -6, I went from a four-desk half-height team cube to just rows of desks in the open. That would have been 2012 I guess.
  - kingsuper20 5y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS5WLkb_Cxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS5WLkb_Cxk
    - barrkel 5y ago
      https://youtu.be/tSY1VnNUJzQ?t=110 https://youtu.be/tSY1VnNUJzQ?t=110 may be better for folks who can't view this video in their geography. (I, for one, can't see it, but I reckon it's the fight over the desk in Brazil.)
rokob 5y ago
I am in the same boat as you and I agree with all you say here. I have a lot opinions on this and continue to say them internally. I encourage you to say this internally as well.
- throwawaygler1 5y ago
  I've been meme-ing about it, but I don't think leadership cares anymore. Instead, I just told my manager that there's 99% chance I'm leaving over the summer, it's a good excuse to take some time off after this crazy year anyways.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Yeah I'm never returning to the office. VP exception or bust. I'm frankly stunned that the company seems to be completely okay with the attrition they are going to see in September.
    - ffggvv 5y ago
      the company doesn’t care about employees below a certain level. there’s hundreds of thousands of them and many more clamoring to get in. i still haven’t forgiven them for cancelling promos a year ago
      - UncleMeat 5y ago
        I'm an L6. I know a handful of L7s who are looking at remote options. Attrition won't just be among junior engineers. Did you get promoted in the fall? Between backfilled raises and manager discretion comp, my experience has been that the cancelled perf ended up working out alright for most people, except those with failed promos who needed to respond to committee feedback.
        ffggvv 5y ago
        i left for another company where i got a raise and promotion. the stock has proceeded to 4x at my new company and now i’m making more than my skip manager was at G. but wouldn’t have left if they hadn’t cancelled
nzrf 5y ago
Fully agree with return to office in line with mask mandate. I’m not sure if you tried talking to someone over hangouts/zoom/teams while they where a mask. It’s next to impossible to understand what they are saying with it on. If we are looking at hybrid most chances someone will be remote. Next marketable item is masks with Bluetooth microphones I guess… I am so glad I found a new fully remote job to skip going back to the office.
- andrewnc 5y ago
  I haven't admitted this publically, but I am actually really looking forward to Project Hazel masks [0] which look like a crazy futuristic n-95, but have microphones and clear portions to help with communication. [0]https://www.razer.com/concepts/razer-project-hazel https://www.razer.com/concepts/razer-project-hazel ps. They have been approved from concept phase, so they are being built as we speak
  - HDMI_Cable 5y ago
    How would someone wash it, if it got dirty?
    - TylerE 5y ago
      Wipe it down? It's silicone.
  - futureproofd 5y ago
    What a hideous mask. I find it hard enough communicating via mask with strangers on the street. There's an anxious feeling that goes with the proximity and the infractions of social distancing. Now imagine all that while looking like Scorpion from mortal kombat.

thoweryo2i344 5y ago

> By now, many of us have gotten a good setup at home and are pretty productive. It might be okay for people who've been at Google for a while, but it's really not a very good experience for a Noogler. Google's infrastructure, while amazing, is also one-of-a-kind, which means that you need a lot of internal resources to get up to speed on things, which would go much faster from a face to face interaction. It's nightmare dealing with all this when the only folk with the required know how are some rather unfriendly folk in MTV (who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India).

throwawaygler1 5y ago
Fair enough, I can see why it would be beneficial for a noogler, but everyone struggles initially, no matter how much face to face interaction you have. It took me 6+ months before I felt comfortable enough with the internal tools and I'm still learning lots of new things today, despite being 6+ years at the company. The other thing is, even if we went to the office, we won't necessarily be able to have the same face-to-face experience until the mask and social distancing mandates are done with imo. I also felt people disinterested on collaborations, everyone has their own goals, I wouldn't attribute it to your country per say.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I think every company struggles with collaboration in general. People have their "day jobs" so asking them to do something they don't really get "credit" for can be tough. It's easier in-person because you're harder to ignore than an email is. But it can be hard to get support especially from other groups.
mgraczyk 5y ago
I joined Google in February and I love working remote. Definitely not excited about the prospect of sitting in traffic for 2 hours a day just to wear a mask at work. I don't work from India, but haven't had much issue with onboarding or access to things.
908B64B197 5y ago
> some rather unfriendly folk in MTV (who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India). Not sure why the racism, care to back that up?
- mehphp 5y ago
  He's clearly quoting the racist comment, not being racist themselves.
dang 5y ago
> who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India I can empathize with the problems of remote work across national and cultural divides, but please don't toss flamebait like this into HN threads. It leads to flamewars, which we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
brandmeyer 5y ago
> (who I find are always rather disinterested with us plebs in "shit-hole" India) It probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I ran into this attitude frequently when working from a satellite office in the US. Teams worked in constant fear of a defrag (read: their jobs got impactful enough to pull the work into MTV), and we regularly referred to ourselves as a "vassal" office. Teams in the vassal would get assigned sustaining engineering work on systems that the MTV folks didn't want to maintain any more, or product development support work for low-end gear. I was told by a PM once, "how can your team contribute if you aren't in MTV?". There were too many examples to count, and enumerating them all would just turn into a grouch-fest. It also certainly isn't everyone on the campus, but incidents happened often enough to be a sore point. So, yeah. They don't look down on you for being from India. They look down on you because you aren't in MTV.
- neilv 5y ago
  Do you know whether people based out of the Cambridge/Boston site would be considered second-class citizens today? And if there is a second-class dynamic, would it be in a way that adversely affected the work, directly, or the impact was more about individual treatment? (For example of affecting the work... when collaboration across sites is needed, for the benefit of the org, would there be difficulty getting it to happen, because some were second-class... such as not being taken as seriously, or working with second-class didn't fit well with promotion strategies, etc.)
  - wffurr 5y ago
    I have never particularly felt second class in the Cambridge office. Nor heard anyone complain of being such. There have been a few defrags, but there is a wide array of impactful projects.

olliej 5y ago

while I was there I detested the open plan cube farm horror of their offices (at least the SF ones) they weren't even full cubes, being only half height so constant visual distraction, and they didn't completely surround you so you had people always moving around behind you. Changing how the open plan is arranged is just pointless, accept that you have made an unpleasant work environment and leave it alone so at least people don't have to track whatever new fad you're on. Hotseating makes it even worse, so I can't see why anyone who respected their employees would consider it.

jeffbee 5y ago
We were all nostalgic for the half-height cubes of Google SF after it was all converted to no-height non-cubes, just desks on the floor (and they kept making the desks narrower, an inch at a time!).
- olliej 5y ago
  when did that happen? while I was there I had a "wall" around two sides of my desk but was in a pod (?) of four
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    When I got moved from SPE-2 to -6, I went from a four-desk half-height team cube to just rows of desks in the open. That would have been 2012 I guess.
- kingsuper20 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS5WLkb_Cxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS5WLkb_Cxk
  - barrkel 5y ago
    https://youtu.be/tSY1VnNUJzQ?t=110 https://youtu.be/tSY1VnNUJzQ?t=110 may be better for folks who can't view this video in their geography. (I, for one, can't see it, but I reckon it's the fight over the desk in Brazil.)

rokob 5y ago

I am in the same boat as you and I agree with all you say here. I have a lot opinions on this and continue to say them internally. I encourage you to say this internally as well.

throwawaygler1 5y ago
I've been meme-ing about it, but I don't think leadership cares anymore. Instead, I just told my manager that there's 99% chance I'm leaving over the summer, it's a good excuse to take some time off after this crazy year anyways.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Yeah I'm never returning to the office. VP exception or bust. I'm frankly stunned that the company seems to be completely okay with the attrition they are going to see in September.
  - ffggvv 5y ago
    the company doesn’t care about employees below a certain level. there’s hundreds of thousands of them and many more clamoring to get in. i still haven’t forgiven them for cancelling promos a year ago
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      I'm an L6. I know a handful of L7s who are looking at remote options. Attrition won't just be among junior engineers. Did you get promoted in the fall? Between backfilled raises and manager discretion comp, my experience has been that the cancelled perf ended up working out alright for most people, except those with failed promos who needed to respond to committee feedback.
      - ffggvv 5y ago
        i left for another company where i got a raise and promotion. the stock has proceeded to 4x at my new company and now i’m making more than my skip manager was at G. but wouldn’t have left if they hadn’t cancelled

nzrf 5y ago

Fully agree with return to office in line with mask mandate. I’m not sure if you tried talking to someone over hangouts/zoom/teams while they where a mask. It’s next to impossible to understand what they are saying with it on. If we are looking at hybrid most chances someone will be remote. Next marketable item is masks with Bluetooth microphones I guess… I am so glad I found a new fully remote job to skip going back to the office.

andrewnc 5y ago
I haven't admitted this publically, but I am actually really looking forward to Project Hazel masks [0] which look like a crazy futuristic n-95, but have microphones and clear portions to help with communication. [0]https://www.razer.com/concepts/razer-project-hazel https://www.razer.com/concepts/razer-project-hazel ps. They have been approved from concept phase, so they are being built as we speak
- HDMI_Cable 5y ago
  How would someone wash it, if it got dirty?
  - TylerE 5y ago
    Wipe it down? It's silicone.
- futureproofd 5y ago
  What a hideous mask. I find it hard enough communicating via mask with strangers on the street. There's an anxious feeling that goes with the proximity and the infractions of social distancing. Now imagine all that while looking like Scorpion from mortal kombat.