7 ms·

This is weird on so many levels. - The article Snowden linked is public. Presumably people already know about it? - I don’t know about the details of the case

by meken 5y ago

This is weird on so many levels. - The article Snowden linked is public. Presumably people already know about it? - I don’t know about the details of the case, but the host wasn’t found guilty. That seems relevant. - Snowden joined the conference just to call this guy out? Seems like a strange thing to do. Why not just not join the conference? Why did Snowden do this?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
- believeinskills 5y ago
  For What?
polytely 5y ago
I mean if you want to prevent people from being scammed you should do it at the conference itself right? plus it is way more fun.
- meken 5y ago
  I guess I’m missing the part which indicates this is obviously a scam. I don’t know why people are attending this conference, but could anyone actually be getting value out of it? If so, then it just depends whether you find this conference ethically defensible, or not. Seems like people could differ on that.
  - M2Ys4U 5y ago
    > I guess I’m missing the part which indicates this is obviously a scam. The host was really pressuring people to pay to join, even when his prospective customers didn't have the money: >Before Snowden joined, Tulsiani was trying to sell $47 tickets to a "VIP" session of the conference. While pitching the VIP session, Tulsiani repeatedly said, “If there was a gun to your head saying you have to find [the money]...you’ll find it,” included as a response to an audience member who said in the group chat that she couldn’t afford the entry fee. That's not necessarily a scam, but it sure is a massively unethical business model.
  - mattigames 5y ago
    My skepticism is not towards this scammer actually providing value, but more towards the likelihood of you being the scammer and trying to defend it on a public platform.
  - drenvuk 5y ago
    I don't understand why you're ok with dying on this hill. He's a scammer. If you had actually watched the video and listened to the explanations by Snowden and looked up the court case that you're saying the scammer was not guilty in but WAS FOUND GUILTY then you would either delete your comments or edit them to say you're wrong. Many times these things aren't black and white. This is one case where it is. Please don't defend obvious scams. Don't give any gap for them to somehow convince people that they're on the up and up because those victim will be hurt. Snowden is using his name and appearance to out this guy and I'm very ok with that.
    - meken 5y ago
      Ah, you're right. Turns out he was found guilty. My mistake. I would edit the comment, but it doesn't look like I can now.
  - not1ofU 5y ago
    more context -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxWjgrr3BA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxWjgrr3BA
  - pavel_lishin 5y ago
    > could anyone actually be getting value out of it? Of course, the scammers running this are absolutely getting value out of it.
  - ev1 5y ago
    If you've had friends involved or lost to Ponzi, HYIP, or MLM, as soon as you see "investment club" and the guy in a gaudy cheap suit, with logos like these? You know. It's a nearly-reflexive gut feeling.
    - meken 5y ago
      Ah, that might explain my ignorance. I’ve never heard the term “investment club” before today. I just assumed it’s legit.
      - ev1 5y ago
        There are legitimate investment clubs, intended to spread risk or do a larger group buy or similar, but the legitimate ones are almost 100% chance not containing showboating arsewaffles that make fun of poor people and telling them that's why they're still poor if they can't come up with the money to give to a scammer. The meetings are often much less boring and procedural, or otherwise it's teenagers learning finance with small amounts being held by a non-minor trustee. Think of it as the difference between a group of people with a formal contract and meetings for investment splitting in a conference room vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCcwn6bGUtU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCcwn6bGUtU It's extremely obvious which category this article's meeting falls into once you know about those two categories. I've had a bunch of friends fall into the MLM world (which will keep telling you it's not a pyramid scheme), and every single presentation or meeting they've ever seen, talked about, or been to has either been mindnumbingly cringe and unprofessionally fraudulent slides with false income numbers (upline-held ones) or cult-like scam screaming and money worship (corporate ones).
mattigames 5y ago
> - The article Snowden linked is public. Presumably people already know about it? Information being public doesn't mean the people in the call know about it > Snowden joined the conference just to call this guy out? Seems like a strange thing to do. Why not just not join the conference? Because some people have a strong aversion against scammers and use anything in their means to oust them, including using any fame they may have.
systemvoltage 5y ago
In the preface leading to the final blow, Snowden says it is his personal and professional obligation to call this guy out. I think the reasons are pretty obvious.
- Craighead 5y ago
  Snowden is a hypocrite whi is the living incarnation of the holier than thou fallacy
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  The guy has a strong sense of ethics. I continue to be impressed.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > The guy has a strong sense of ethics. I continue to be impressed. That seems to be the case in general, but I have to say in this case it doesn’t really require that to decide to take the opportunity to slam dunk on someone when you discover you’ve been scammed into agreeing to be a speaker for their scam. A fairly normal degree of personal desire for retaliation would suffice.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      That’s fair, but normally people either bow out at the last second; or alert the authorities (not sure if it applies here). Maybe I’m more impressed by his hands-on approach to calling someone out. Either way, color me impressed.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
      Does it? Seems like hollywood has for ages turned a blind eye to a lot of these issues. I think it takes more than a fairly average predisposition to honesty, to go out out there, and yell fraud when you see fraud. Take this event as an example. If it was so easy to call people out, then you would hear it far more often. Here is a single case, and made it to the top of HN.
0xdde 5y ago
That's a big presumption. You think the scheme was anything other than a scam and that anyone still unaware deserved to be separated form their money?
ramphastidae 5y ago
> I don’t know about the details of the case, but the host wasn’t found guilty. That’s not what I see: > On June 7, 2017, Mr. Tulsiani pled guilty to unregistered trading and breaching an OSC cease trade order in connection with an investment scheme involving the Private Investment Club, which targeted Ontario investors. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/osc-investor-alert-sunil-tulsiani-195200941.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/osc-investor-alert-sunil-tuls... > Why did Snowden do this? Did you watch the video? He explains exactly why.
- meken 5y ago
  Ah, you’re right. My mistake. I was going off the article Snowden put up saying the guy was “named”, so I assumed he wasn’t actually found guilty, just accused.
kerng 5y ago
I'd imagine Snowden is not interested to support/invest in someone/something related to a person who has been banned from trading securities for life by the Ontario Securities Commission, and thinks other should be aware if it before investing also. Wish more famous people would use their status to protect others.

by meken 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

believeinskills 5y ago
For What?

polytely 5y ago

I mean if you want to prevent people from being scammed you should do it at the conference itself right? plus it is way more fun.

meken 5y ago
I guess I’m missing the part which indicates this is obviously a scam. I don’t know why people are attending this conference, but could anyone actually be getting value out of it? If so, then it just depends whether you find this conference ethically defensible, or not. Seems like people could differ on that.
- M2Ys4U 5y ago
  > I guess I’m missing the part which indicates this is obviously a scam. The host was really pressuring people to pay to join, even when his prospective customers didn't have the money: >Before Snowden joined, Tulsiani was trying to sell $47 tickets to a "VIP" session of the conference. While pitching the VIP session, Tulsiani repeatedly said, “If there was a gun to your head saying you have to find [the money]...you’ll find it,” included as a response to an audience member who said in the group chat that she couldn’t afford the entry fee. That's not necessarily a scam, but it sure is a massively unethical business model.
- mattigames 5y ago
  My skepticism is not towards this scammer actually providing value, but more towards the likelihood of you being the scammer and trying to defend it on a public platform.
- drenvuk 5y ago
  I don't understand why you're ok with dying on this hill. He's a scammer. If you had actually watched the video and listened to the explanations by Snowden and looked up the court case that you're saying the scammer was not guilty in but WAS FOUND GUILTY then you would either delete your comments or edit them to say you're wrong. Many times these things aren't black and white. This is one case where it is. Please don't defend obvious scams. Don't give any gap for them to somehow convince people that they're on the up and up because those victim will be hurt. Snowden is using his name and appearance to out this guy and I'm very ok with that.
  - meken 5y ago
    Ah, you're right. Turns out he was found guilty. My mistake. I would edit the comment, but it doesn't look like I can now.
- not1ofU 5y ago
  more context -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxWjgrr3BA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxWjgrr3BA
- pavel_lishin 5y ago
  > could anyone actually be getting value out of it? Of course, the scammers running this are absolutely getting value out of it.
- ev1 5y ago
  If you've had friends involved or lost to Ponzi, HYIP, or MLM, as soon as you see "investment club" and the guy in a gaudy cheap suit, with logos like these? You know. It's a nearly-reflexive gut feeling.
  - meken 5y ago
    Ah, that might explain my ignorance. I’ve never heard the term “investment club” before today. I just assumed it’s legit.
    - ev1 5y ago
      There are legitimate investment clubs, intended to spread risk or do a larger group buy or similar, but the legitimate ones are almost 100% chance not containing showboating arsewaffles that make fun of poor people and telling them that's why they're still poor if they can't come up with the money to give to a scammer. The meetings are often much less boring and procedural, or otherwise it's teenagers learning finance with small amounts being held by a non-minor trustee. Think of it as the difference between a group of people with a formal contract and meetings for investment splitting in a conference room vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCcwn6bGUtU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCcwn6bGUtU It's extremely obvious which category this article's meeting falls into once you know about those two categories. I've had a bunch of friends fall into the MLM world (which will keep telling you it's not a pyramid scheme), and every single presentation or meeting they've ever seen, talked about, or been to has either been mindnumbingly cringe and unprofessionally fraudulent slides with false income numbers (upline-held ones) or cult-like scam screaming and money worship (corporate ones).

mattigames 5y ago

> - The article Snowden linked is public. Presumably people already know about it? Information being public doesn't mean the people in the call know about it > Snowden joined the conference just to call this guy out? Seems like a strange thing to do. Why not just not join the conference? Because some people have a strong aversion against scammers and use anything in their means to oust them, including using any fame they may have.

systemvoltage 5y ago

In the preface leading to the final blow, Snowden says it is his personal and professional obligation to call this guy out. I think the reasons are pretty obvious.

Craighead 5y ago
Snowden is a hypocrite whi is the living incarnation of the holier than thou fallacy
nobodyandproud 5y ago
The guy has a strong sense of ethics. I continue to be impressed.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The guy has a strong sense of ethics. I continue to be impressed. That seems to be the case in general, but I have to say in this case it doesn’t really require that to decide to take the opportunity to slam dunk on someone when you discover you’ve been scammed into agreeing to be a speaker for their scam. A fairly normal degree of personal desire for retaliation would suffice.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    That’s fair, but normally people either bow out at the last second; or alert the authorities (not sure if it applies here). Maybe I’m more impressed by his hands-on approach to calling someone out. Either way, color me impressed.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    Does it? Seems like hollywood has for ages turned a blind eye to a lot of these issues. I think it takes more than a fairly average predisposition to honesty, to go out out there, and yell fraud when you see fraud. Take this event as an example. If it was so easy to call people out, then you would hear it far more often. Here is a single case, and made it to the top of HN.

0xdde 5y ago

That's a big presumption. You think the scheme was anything other than a scam and that anyone still unaware deserved to be separated form their money?

ramphastidae 5y ago

> I don’t know about the details of the case, but the host wasn’t found guilty. That’s not what I see: > On June 7, 2017, Mr. Tulsiani pled guilty to unregistered trading and breaching an OSC cease trade order in connection with an investment scheme involving the Private Investment Club, which targeted Ontario investors. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/osc-investor-alert-sunil-tulsiani-195200941.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/osc-investor-alert-sunil-tuls... > Why did Snowden do this? Did you watch the video? He explains exactly why.

meken 5y ago
Ah, you’re right. My mistake. I was going off the article Snowden put up saying the guy was “named”, so I assumed he wasn’t actually found guilty, just accused.

kerng 5y ago

I'd imagine Snowden is not interested to support/invest in someone/something related to a person who has been banned from trading securities for life by the Ontario Securities Commission, and thinks other should be aware if it before investing also. Wish more famous people would use their status to protect others.