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I think you're right, but I also think that in reality it is very difficult to draw a line between personal political discussions and company policy decisions i

I think you're right, but I also think that in reality it is very difficult to draw a line between personal political discussions and company policy decisions in the modern world. Yes it's always boring when someone in the workplace makes bold political statements that no one asked for, but what happens when the company you work for outsources jobs abroad, is making questionable HR decisions, etc. I'm not sure it's right to say that any discussion about anything political is banned when a company policy that affects an employee can be political in nature. Creating a positive and productive culture is hard. I don't have all the answers, but bans seem like a very blunt instrument.

chipgap98 5y ago
Yeah I think you are making the important parts. The issues don't sounds like there were long winded debates about left wing and right wing ideologies. If someone is being racist am I not allowed to bring acknowledge that because it is political?
vp8989 5y ago
"I'm not sure it's right to say that any discussion about anything political is banned when a company policy that affects an employee can be political in nature." Why do you think that's the policy? Did you read the blog posts? According to DHH's post, political discussion that is related to the business is allowed. Any other political discussion is encouraged but must take place in a dedicated non-work channel. The policy is also not zero-tolerance.
- tweetle_beetle 5y ago
  https://world.hey.com/dhh/basecamp-s-new-etiquette-regarding-societal-politics-at-work-b44bef69 https://world.hey.com/dhh/basecamp-s-new-etiquette-regarding... > Therefore, we’re asking everyone, including Jason and me, to refrain from using our company Basecamp or HEY to discuss societal politics at work effective immediately. > This includes everything from sharing political stories in campfire, using message threads to elucidate others on political beliefs that go beyond the topic directly, or performing political advocacy in general. > ... > Note that we will continue to engage in politics that directly relate to our business or products. Not so interested in nitpicking about whether banning is semantically correct - I think you know what I meant. What's more interesting is the awkward situation they have created, which I'd argue is a false dichotomy - where does "societal politics" end and "politics that directly relate to our business or products" start?
  - vp8989 5y ago
    The details do matter, though. By omitting details you create a hypothetical position that is less reasonable and easier for you to criticize. In this particular situation, this type of thing is particularly harmful because it paints the supposed originators of this made up position as something they are not. You could arguably consider it as libel by omission. I don't even mean to single you out because I've seen this type of thing countless times on here and especially on Twitter over the last week or so. "What's more interesting is the awkward situation they have created, which I'd argue is a false dichotomy - where does "societal politics" end and "politics that directly relate to our business or products" start?" That can be tricky, which is why the policy is not zero tolerance and they already anticipate and are OK with people sometimes getting it wrong.
javagram 5y ago
> but what happens when the company you work for outsources jobs abroad, is making questionable HR decisions, etc. I'm not sure it's right to say that any discussion about anything political is banned when a company policy that affects an employee can be political in nature. Banning labor-related discussions is illegal in the USA, where Basecamp is based (Protected Concerted Activity). There is also the option of unionization to provide a further structure to protect your legal rights to discuss with management issues around pay, HR, and outsourcing.

chipgap98 5y ago

Yeah I think you are making the important parts. The issues don't sounds like there were long winded debates about left wing and right wing ideologies. If someone is being racist am I not allowed to bring acknowledge that because it is political?

vp8989 5y ago

"I'm not sure it's right to say that any discussion about anything political is banned when a company policy that affects an employee can be political in nature." Why do you think that's the policy? Did you read the blog posts? According to DHH's post, political discussion that is related to the business is allowed. Any other political discussion is encouraged but must take place in a dedicated non-work channel. The policy is also not zero-tolerance.

tweetle_beetle 5y ago
https://world.hey.com/dhh/basecamp-s-new-etiquette-regarding-societal-politics-at-work-b44bef69 https://world.hey.com/dhh/basecamp-s-new-etiquette-regarding... > Therefore, we’re asking everyone, including Jason and me, to refrain from using our company Basecamp or HEY to discuss societal politics at work effective immediately. > This includes everything from sharing political stories in campfire, using message threads to elucidate others on political beliefs that go beyond the topic directly, or performing political advocacy in general. > ... > Note that we will continue to engage in politics that directly relate to our business or products. Not so interested in nitpicking about whether banning is semantically correct - I think you know what I meant. What's more interesting is the awkward situation they have created, which I'd argue is a false dichotomy - where does "societal politics" end and "politics that directly relate to our business or products" start?
- vp8989 5y ago
  The details do matter, though. By omitting details you create a hypothetical position that is less reasonable and easier for you to criticize. In this particular situation, this type of thing is particularly harmful because it paints the supposed originators of this made up position as something they are not. You could arguably consider it as libel by omission. I don't even mean to single you out because I've seen this type of thing countless times on here and especially on Twitter over the last week or so. "What's more interesting is the awkward situation they have created, which I'd argue is a false dichotomy - where does "societal politics" end and "politics that directly relate to our business or products" start?" That can be tricky, which is why the policy is not zero tolerance and they already anticipate and are OK with people sometimes getting it wrong.

javagram 5y ago

> but what happens when the company you work for outsources jobs abroad, is making questionable HR decisions, etc. I'm not sure it's right to say that any discussion about anything political is banned when a company policy that affects an employee can be political in nature. Banning labor-related discussions is illegal in the USA, where Basecamp is based (Protected Concerted Activity). There is also the option of unionization to provide a further structure to protect your legal rights to discuss with management issues around pay, HR, and outsourcing.