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It’s wild that the brain can just make sounds up like that. Now I’m wondering how much of the soundscape I hear is real. Seems like that’s something that could
by mjgs 5y ago
It’s wild that the brain can just make sounds up like that. Now I’m wondering how much of the soundscape I hear is real.
Seems like that’s something that could be exploited.
- hprotagonist 5y agoto go all sophomoric on you; that sure depends on what you think “real” means! (you might like listening to the mcgurk effect, or shepard tones)
- mjgs 5y agoReal as in generated by the external world, rather than generated by the brain.
- hprotagonist 5y agowhat’s the difference? where does “external” start and “brain” end?
- mjgs 5y agoUnfortunately if the brain has been trained to create fake sounds, then that becomes really difficult to determine. But conceptually there is an thing which is the brain and there are things that are external to the brain.
- icedchai 5y agoThe same is true of every sense. How do you think hallucinations work? I’ve experienced phantom sounds and sensations. Visual almost never though.
- mjgs 5y agoMy impression was that hallucinations only happened under extreme conditions, like drugs, alcohol, heat etc, but it’s a bit worrying that it could happen basically anytime. If the brain “learns” that it can accomplish things via this method, then that could be really problematic.
- icedchai 5y agoPossibly... I have had minor auditory hallucinations while I'm falling asleep. Most often it is a single sound, like a high pitched ding or bong. It sounds like a notification, but very unlike one from my phone. It is definitely purely internal.
- mjgs 5y agoThat’s interesting, I hadn’t considered the falling asleep state. Yeah maybe that has happened to me too. It’s hard / practically impossible to determine exactly what it is though. It might be someone in the next room, someone walking past, another sound entirely that got morphed into the sound you heard to fit your brains narrative as you were falling asleep. Might even be that your phone was hacked! Something sort of similar: I used to feel phantom phone vibrations when I had the vibration feature activated.
- dTal 5y agoIt's more than that; the soundscape you hear is all in your head. You don't have "direct" experience of anything! So there's not really any distinction between "real" and "made up" sounds. And yes, it's exploited in every lossy audio codec.
- mjgs 5y agoYes of course, ultimately the brain generates all the sounds, but they tend to be “copies” or at least in some way in sync with something happening in the outside world. The exploitation I was referring to was surreptitiously (or maybe even in some unentered way) training the brain that it can get what it wants by self generating sounds.
- kqr 5y agoThe brain exploits these powers all the time. The most well known example is the blind spot, but that's just the beginning of it. Our wiring is incredibly improvised throughout and the brain works hard to paper it all over. A generous reading of Kahneman and Tversky suggests your brain even hides its own workings from itself.
- anaerobicover 5y agoA quite simple demonstration is to be in an environment with constant but not overwhelming repetitive noise, such as a slightly loud fan. While you are concentrating to do something else, perhaps reading, the sound will disappear from your awareness. Now suddenly the sound stops. It is a strange sensation, as if a new noise was present, but in fact it is a silence or lack of noise. An auditory illusion like some optical illusions of staring at a spot then looking elsewhere and having an afterimage. Nothing sensual is presented directly: it is all contextual.
- mjgs 5y agoI don’t think I’ve experienced that. Noises do ‘go into the background’ so to speak, but even when they disappear completely from consciousness, when they re-appear I know / remember they were in the background. Maybe occasionally I’m a bit unsure if it’s a new sound or not.