5 ms·

I've worked in any number of crappy labouring type jobs and the main difference between 'bearable' and 'fuck this' was most often bosses who believed in constan

I've worked in any number of crappy labouring type jobs and the main difference between 'bearable' and 'fuck this' was most often bosses who believed in constantly giving everyone the hurry-up. Going at your own pace feels like a superpower when you're not used to it. Being tired at the end of the day was pretty normal for most of the labouring jobs I've had, but it mostly felt like a simple exchange, my effort for money to live. Varying levels of sucky conditions were part of the weighing up against rate of pay. Overtime was just another weighing up, inconvenience of the extra hours or weirdly timed shift against higher pay. Those simple calculations didn't usually seem unfair, until some jerk tried to get free money for himself or the company by pushing everyone to do more than they felt comfortable. Not only because of physical discomfort, but the underlying stress of always being pressured. It's totally understandable why bosses think thats a good idea, while at the same time I hate it like poison. Obviously that problem is not restricted to manual labour, but I guess it is the one of the most easily replaceable resources, and you don't have much leverage, so it shows up often there.

datavirtue 5y ago
I have also worked physically demanding jobs but none of them phatigued me like writing software for eight hours.
- jacksonkmarley 5y ago
  I think there's some analogue between the sore body and physical tiredness after physical labour workdays, and the mental fatigue and dull brain after all-day intense coding. Both are quite unpleasant if they overwhelm you, but there are ways to mitigate both types of effects if you are in a position to manipulate your workday and/or your free time. Snapping yourself out of those states is pretty important IMO. I've had varying success with things like sport or general exercise, it really takes willpower to overcome sometimes though. Work in progress still for me.
  - wildrhythms 5y ago
    Or perhaps the concept of the 8-hour work day lends itself neither to physical nor mental well-being?
- tiew9Vii 5y ago
  Similar I wouldn’t say specifically software, it’s more in an intense office environment / thought work under high pressure. Hard physical work I’d go home at the end of the day 10-12 hours, tired but could switch off mentally and relax. On the days off I was ready to take on the world and make the most of it. The tough software jobs like I’m currently in have left me mentally drained like a zombie at the end of the day then physically unable to go do some exercise to get out of the pattern with some mild depression. I found a greater sense of achievement in physical work. Working through a high number of pallets a night stacking shelves leaving in the morning with a shop isle looking pristine. Tipping one ton bags of sand or gravel with a spade and wheelbarrow, digging trenches, moving heavy materials etc etc. It’s easy to see the work you did, it’s clear, it’s simple, there’s no faff. Moving Jira tickets, sat in endless meetings feels like nothing gets done, you are working for the sake of work without doing work, people talk using the same management speak from a book answering questions without answering questions or taking ownership and instead grandstanding. As much as I love software, right now if labouring payed, I’d switch in a heartbeat.
  - zikzak 5y ago
    I go for a 20ish minute walk every day as soon as I get off the work vpn. It's a game changer for getting out of work mode and into home mode. This isn't a power walk fitness thing where I come up with side hustle ideas. It's a leisurely stroll with my dog. I often pick up the mail (community mail box) and I let my dog smell everything, and so on. When I worked in an office, I would sometimes do this before I drove home. It takes no energy, so I thought I'd suggest it. I used to be a cook and, before that, a dishwasher. Many is the day that I look back on those simpler days, but yeah, the money. What can you do? :)
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  FWIW, I agree with you. After the first .com crash, I worked as a welder in a shipyard for a couple of years. (Yay fallback skills!) I actually enjoyed the work and my coworkers, but nothing gets around the fact that it was such a physically fatiguing job that I literally had no juice left for anything other than work, sleep, and work again. One long-term benefit is that the stresses of working in tech bother me a lot less than they did before I had my welding experience. No matter how tough the current sprint, at least I'm not covered in leathers in the belly of a ship, worried that someone will disconnect my exhaust manifold and I'll die of CO2 poisoning!
reader_mode 5y ago
>the main difference between 'bearable' and 'fuck this' was most often bosses I would usually get along OK with the higher ups - but the people I had to work with were a major cause of daily problems. Having to work with a disyfunctional alcoholics drinking on the job and cover for them, work with people with cognitive impairment (operating on industrial machinery that can dismember you while a guy with ~80IQ is fumbling arround and already had incidents of almost injuring people), etc. The shit jobs I had were shit because of coworkers. I didn't do a lot of them, this is only anecdotal, etc. etc. but I just wanted to add a counterpoint. I had the complete opposite experience in SW, there the stress usually does come from higher up and coworkers are usually either great or not a problem.

datavirtue 5y ago

I have also worked physically demanding jobs but none of them phatigued me like writing software for eight hours.

jacksonkmarley 5y ago
I think there's some analogue between the sore body and physical tiredness after physical labour workdays, and the mental fatigue and dull brain after all-day intense coding. Both are quite unpleasant if they overwhelm you, but there are ways to mitigate both types of effects if you are in a position to manipulate your workday and/or your free time. Snapping yourself out of those states is pretty important IMO. I've had varying success with things like sport or general exercise, it really takes willpower to overcome sometimes though. Work in progress still for me.
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  Or perhaps the concept of the 8-hour work day lends itself neither to physical nor mental well-being?
tiew9Vii 5y ago
Similar I wouldn’t say specifically software, it’s more in an intense office environment / thought work under high pressure. Hard physical work I’d go home at the end of the day 10-12 hours, tired but could switch off mentally and relax. On the days off I was ready to take on the world and make the most of it. The tough software jobs like I’m currently in have left me mentally drained like a zombie at the end of the day then physically unable to go do some exercise to get out of the pattern with some mild depression. I found a greater sense of achievement in physical work. Working through a high number of pallets a night stacking shelves leaving in the morning with a shop isle looking pristine. Tipping one ton bags of sand or gravel with a spade and wheelbarrow, digging trenches, moving heavy materials etc etc. It’s easy to see the work you did, it’s clear, it’s simple, there’s no faff. Moving Jira tickets, sat in endless meetings feels like nothing gets done, you are working for the sake of work without doing work, people talk using the same management speak from a book answering questions without answering questions or taking ownership and instead grandstanding. As much as I love software, right now if labouring payed, I’d switch in a heartbeat.
- zikzak 5y ago
  I go for a 20ish minute walk every day as soon as I get off the work vpn. It's a game changer for getting out of work mode and into home mode. This isn't a power walk fitness thing where I come up with side hustle ideas. It's a leisurely stroll with my dog. I often pick up the mail (community mail box) and I let my dog smell everything, and so on. When I worked in an office, I would sometimes do this before I drove home. It takes no energy, so I thought I'd suggest it. I used to be a cook and, before that, a dishwasher. Many is the day that I look back on those simpler days, but yeah, the money. What can you do? :)
Baeocystin 5y ago
FWIW, I agree with you. After the first .com crash, I worked as a welder in a shipyard for a couple of years. (Yay fallback skills!) I actually enjoyed the work and my coworkers, but nothing gets around the fact that it was such a physically fatiguing job that I literally had no juice left for anything other than work, sleep, and work again. One long-term benefit is that the stresses of working in tech bother me a lot less than they did before I had my welding experience. No matter how tough the current sprint, at least I'm not covered in leathers in the belly of a ship, worried that someone will disconnect my exhaust manifold and I'll die of CO2 poisoning!

reader_mode 5y ago

>the main difference between 'bearable' and 'fuck this' was most often bosses I would usually get along OK with the higher ups - but the people I had to work with were a major cause of daily problems. Having to work with a disyfunctional alcoholics drinking on the job and cover for them, work with people with cognitive impairment (operating on industrial machinery that can dismember you while a guy with ~80IQ is fumbling arround and already had incidents of almost injuring people), etc. The shit jobs I had were shit because of coworkers. I didn't do a lot of them, this is only anecdotal, etc. etc. but I just wanted to add a counterpoint. I had the complete opposite experience in SW, there the stress usually does come from higher up and coworkers are usually either great or not a problem.