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If the validity of your point relies very much on this: given it’s been reviewed by the following, it seems like they all are so detached from reality that the

If the validity of your point relies very much on this: given it’s been reviewed by the following, it seems like they all are so detached from reality that they cannot objectively provide meaningful feedback ...you're not on very solid ground. Austen Allred was living out of his car and showering at the YMCA just a few years ago. Patrick Collision is from an ordinary family in Ireland, and Harj Taggar is from an ordinary family in England. Daniel Gackle is a humble employee of YC, and is routinely attacked in the course of doing his job. Even Trevor Blackwell, Jessica Livingston, Robert Morris and PG were "ordinary" people until having success with Viaweb (except JL) and then YC, not all that long ago. So they all know what it's like to be nobodies trying their best against all odds, even if they (at least some of them) are not in that place any more. As for this: the best voice is everybody’s voice True this may be, but perhaps the most important difference between those who make a big impact and the rest of us the ability to be undeterred by the reflexive hate we inevitably attract when we use our voice to share something novel. With this in mind, perhaps the key to benefiting from more people's creative energy is to dial down the hate and be more encouraging towards anyone who is attempting to make a valuable difference.

geofft 5y ago
You know a lot about these people's personal lives! I think that means you're a "fanboy" and if I understand TFA right, I think that means you can be dismissed out of hand?
- tomhoward 5y ago
  I was in a YC-funded startup many years ago (which didn't make it big), so some of those people have been investors/mentors, some are personal acquaintances/friends, and the others have stories that are well-known to anyone in YC.
abhinav22 5y ago
> ..you're not on very solid ground. (Sorry not quoting the entire point, not out of rudeness but due to its length). My point rather was that they are all successful and similar to Paul, so during their review they didn’t pick up on (in my opinion) the lack of content in the essay, which may be a reflection they are caught among themselves and not objectively evaluating each other - this could imply a greater predisposition to label criticism as “haters”. > With this in mind, perhaps the key to benefiting from more people's creative energy is to dial down the hate and be more encouraging towards anyone who is attempting to make a valuable difference. Agree 100%. There’s nothing positive that comes from hate, even criticism should only be provided if it has a chance of actually improving the end product (otherwise it could just be hate hiding as criticism), otherwise what’s the point of criticizing?
- tomhoward 5y ago
  > this could imply a greater predisposition to label criticism as “haters” Perhaps. Or the other way of looking at it is that as professional investors/mentors of early stage founders, or founders/execs themselves, these people have a greater incentive than just about anyone else to be highly attuned to the difference between valid criticism and "hate", and that their career success will, to at least some extent, be an indicator of how adept they are at this. Anyway, it seems we agree more than we disagree overall. Thanks for your reply.
jack_pp 5y ago
The fact that they are from humble beginnings strengthens parents point imo. I've found that even if you have been through a lot of status highs and lows, if you have not specifically worked on your ego you are still very succeptible to arrogance / ego trips or whatever you want to call it. And if this is your first cycle, meaning that you were once low status and are now high status, you will most likely have this problem.
- tomhoward 5y ago
  Given that I know some of these people personally (having been in a YC-funded startup) I can assert that the "if you have not specifically worked on your ego" part and the "still very succeptible to arrogance / ego trips" is specifically untrue of at least some of them.
  - jack_pp 5y ago
    That's a better argument than the humble beginnings stories
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
Just because these people were once ordinary, it does not mean they are still grounded in reality. I also think it's very easy for people to dismiss criticism as people being haters. For example, you mention Austen Allred. He has been getting flak on HN and elsewhere from both random people and Lambda school students. To me (And seemingly some other people), he seems a bit detached from reality and based on his few interactions it seems like he either doesn't care or likely dismisses the criticism as people being haters. > With this in mind, perhaps the key to benefiting from more people's creative energy is to dial down the hate and be more encouraging towards anyone who is attempting to make a valuable difference The issue I see here is people lauding their vision in the face of criticism, effectively saying "you just don't get it" and labelling the people who criticize them as haters. Personally, the only way I become a "hater" is when someone does what I just described. Laud their idea as the next coming of christ and basically refuse to interact with any criticism.
CPLX 5y ago
> Austen Allred was living out of his car and showering at the YMCA just a few years ago. Patrick Collision is from an ordinary family in Ireland, and Harj Taggar is from an ordinary family in England. Daniel Gackle is a humble employee of YC, and is routinely attacked in the course of doing his job. Even Trevor Blackwell, Jessica Livingston, Robert Morris and PG were "ordinary" people until having success with Viaweb (except JL) and then YC, not all that long ago. So they all know what it's like to be nobodies trying their best against all odds, even if they (at least some of them) are not in that place any more. Yeah and before that they were infants who couldn’t even manage their own bodily functions and were unable to practice even the most basic impulse control. Perspectives change. The problem, in at least some instances, might be that after the upbringing you describe they became extremely wealthy and isolated from the concerns of average people and lived that way for quite awhile. If you do that for long enough you do, in fact, have a tendency to completely lose track of what it’s like to be a nobody. Sort of like how you probably aren’t as connected to shitting yourself in public and screaming for hours for no reason as you were at one point in your life. If you don’t see how access to extreme money and power fundamentally changes people you haven’t been around people with extreme money and power. Experience changes people.

geofft 5y ago

You know a lot about these people's personal lives! I think that means you're a "fanboy" and if I understand TFA right, I think that means you can be dismissed out of hand?

tomhoward 5y ago
I was in a YC-funded startup many years ago (which didn't make it big), so some of those people have been investors/mentors, some are personal acquaintances/friends, and the others have stories that are well-known to anyone in YC.

abhinav22 5y ago

> ..you're not on very solid ground. (Sorry not quoting the entire point, not out of rudeness but due to its length). My point rather was that they are all successful and similar to Paul, so during their review they didn’t pick up on (in my opinion) the lack of content in the essay, which may be a reflection they are caught among themselves and not objectively evaluating each other - this could imply a greater predisposition to label criticism as “haters”. > With this in mind, perhaps the key to benefiting from more people's creative energy is to dial down the hate and be more encouraging towards anyone who is attempting to make a valuable difference. Agree 100%. There’s nothing positive that comes from hate, even criticism should only be provided if it has a chance of actually improving the end product (otherwise it could just be hate hiding as criticism), otherwise what’s the point of criticizing?

tomhoward 5y ago
> this could imply a greater predisposition to label criticism as “haters” Perhaps. Or the other way of looking at it is that as professional investors/mentors of early stage founders, or founders/execs themselves, these people have a greater incentive than just about anyone else to be highly attuned to the difference between valid criticism and "hate", and that their career success will, to at least some extent, be an indicator of how adept they are at this. Anyway, it seems we agree more than we disagree overall. Thanks for your reply.

jack_pp 5y ago

The fact that they are from humble beginnings strengthens parents point imo. I've found that even if you have been through a lot of status highs and lows, if you have not specifically worked on your ego you are still very succeptible to arrogance / ego trips or whatever you want to call it. And if this is your first cycle, meaning that you were once low status and are now high status, you will most likely have this problem.

tomhoward 5y ago
Given that I know some of these people personally (having been in a YC-funded startup) I can assert that the "if you have not specifically worked on your ego" part and the "still very succeptible to arrogance / ego trips" is specifically untrue of at least some of them.
- jack_pp 5y ago
  That's a better argument than the humble beginnings stories

ZephyrBlu 5y ago

Just because these people were once ordinary, it does not mean they are still grounded in reality. I also think it's very easy for people to dismiss criticism as people being haters. For example, you mention Austen Allred. He has been getting flak on HN and elsewhere from both random people and Lambda school students. To me (And seemingly some other people), he seems a bit detached from reality and based on his few interactions it seems like he either doesn't care or likely dismisses the criticism as people being haters. > With this in mind, perhaps the key to benefiting from more people's creative energy is to dial down the hate and be more encouraging towards anyone who is attempting to make a valuable difference The issue I see here is people lauding their vision in the face of criticism, effectively saying "you just don't get it" and labelling the people who criticize them as haters. Personally, the only way I become a "hater" is when someone does what I just described. Laud their idea as the next coming of christ and basically refuse to interact with any criticism.

CPLX 5y ago

> Austen Allred was living out of his car and showering at the YMCA just a few years ago. Patrick Collision is from an ordinary family in Ireland, and Harj Taggar is from an ordinary family in England. Daniel Gackle is a humble employee of YC, and is routinely attacked in the course of doing his job. Even Trevor Blackwell, Jessica Livingston, Robert Morris and PG were "ordinary" people until having success with Viaweb (except JL) and then YC, not all that long ago. So they all know what it's like to be nobodies trying their best against all odds, even if they (at least some of them) are not in that place any more. Yeah and before that they were infants who couldn’t even manage their own bodily functions and were unable to practice even the most basic impulse control. Perspectives change. The problem, in at least some instances, might be that after the upbringing you describe they became extremely wealthy and isolated from the concerns of average people and lived that way for quite awhile. If you do that for long enough you do, in fact, have a tendency to completely lose track of what it’s like to be a nobody. Sort of like how you probably aren’t as connected to shitting yourself in public and screaming for hours for no reason as you were at one point in your life. If you don’t see how access to extreme money and power fundamentally changes people you haven’t been around people with extreme money and power. Experience changes people.