5 ms·

As a user of both, my general advice is that working in the Apple ecosystem is an absolute joy if you learn to do everything Apple's way instead of trying to cu

by p49k 5y ago

As a user of both, my general advice is that working in the Apple ecosystem is an absolute joy if you learn to do everything Apple's way instead of trying to customize things to work your way. The more you stray from defaults, the more things break. It's basically the opposite of Linux. That having been said, I personally prefer the Apple way, because so much of the ecosystem just works in a way that you will never experience with Linux, no matter how much work you put in (but you do lose out on the joy of tinkering with things). It's a matter of preference.

stuaxo 5y ago
This is true, until you want to do something that it doesn't already do, then you flip over onto the painful side of things. (Whereas, of course - Linux has a certain amount of pain by default).
chrisseaton 5y ago
Right - to get the best out of Apple you need to go in planning to do things the Apple way. If you go in planning to recreate your tiling window manager driven from the keyboard... you're just not going to get the intended benefits. Swim with the current not against it.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Although even just installing Magnet really helps.
- bartvk 5y ago
  Amethyst is pretty good and keyboard driven. But note that under Linux, I never used a tiling WM, so I can't compare. https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst
  - mr_o47 5y ago
    Got it thanks for suggesting, When searching for tiling window managers for Mac I came across Yabai Have you tried it
    - bartvk 5y ago
      I believe Yabai requires you to turn off SIP. However I really appreciate these security features so I never tried it.
mlacks 5y ago
agreed. do things the apple way and you'll have a lot fewer problems.
ylyn 5y ago
> because so much of the ecosystem just works in a way that you will never experience with Linux I do Linux kernel development. Will that _just work_ on a Mac too?
- eatonphil 5y ago
  Not a Mac fan but you don't test kernel changes in a VM?
  - ajross 5y ago
    Statistically, basically all kernel developers are working on hardware support of one form or another. They might run changes in an appropriate simulator[1] if they have it, but the community of people able to do the bulk of their work in a desktop VM is quite small. [1] OS X support for which tends to be a pain point too, while most vendors tend to have some kind of Linux product this is still very much a windows world.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  Surely you can understand that Linux kernel development might fall outside of "so much of the ecosystem", and in this case the statement still holds!
- mr_o47 5y ago
  Just curious do kernel developers use mac
- throwaway3neu94 5y ago
  Yes. At our company, we do a lot of kernel development. Most devs are issued Macs, some Thinkpads with Windows. Very few run Linux locally, as IT doesn't like it. We have Linux shell servers for development. They compile much faster than laptops anyway. The actual test systems are separate as well. You don't want to test on the machine you develop on generally (it'd be extremely annoying to not be able to edit code while waiting for the reboot to get the new kernel, and to loose your open windows for every iteration. Also what if it oopses?), and in our case that wouldn't work anyway (special HW). Most use vim in screen, and VS Code with it's native SSH remote host support is also very nice. If it works for dozens of our engineers, it can work for you if you're willing.
satysin 5y ago
> if you learn to do everything Apple's way instead of trying to customize things to work your way Agree 100%. It is frustrating at first as I have worked the way I work since forever but over the course of a few weeks I noticed many of the changes were actual improvements saving me time and/or making my life easier. Not always but a lot of the time the "Apple way" is actually well thought out and reduces friction elsewhere in my workflow. It was a classic case of being blind to my own inefficiencies as that was just what I was used to and it worked. The nice thing about macOS (and Windows now with WSL) is all the unix/posix tools I was used to on Linux work the same (or near enough) that switching wasn't difficult or particularly painful. The only thing I really miss when using macOS compared to Linux and Windows is top tier window management. I use Magnet (have also used Amethyst) to make life a little easier but macOS still has the worst implementation of managing windows. I am used to it now so it isn't a huge issue and the benefits of the platform far outweigh this one little area of annoyance but if I could change any one thing about macOS it would be to really overhaul the way windows are managed.

by p49k 5y ago

stuaxo 5y ago

This is true, until you want to do something that it doesn't already do, then you flip over onto the painful side of things. (Whereas, of course - Linux has a certain amount of pain by default).

chrisseaton 5y ago

Right - to get the best out of Apple you need to go in planning to do things the Apple way. If you go in planning to recreate your tiling window manager driven from the keyboard... you're just not going to get the intended benefits. Swim with the current not against it.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Although even just installing Magnet really helps.
bartvk 5y ago
Amethyst is pretty good and keyboard driven. But note that under Linux, I never used a tiling WM, so I can't compare. https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst
- mr_o47 5y ago
  Got it thanks for suggesting, When searching for tiling window managers for Mac I came across Yabai Have you tried it
  - bartvk 5y ago
    I believe Yabai requires you to turn off SIP. However I really appreciate these security features so I never tried it.

mlacks 5y ago

agreed. do things the apple way and you'll have a lot fewer problems.

ylyn 5y ago

> because so much of the ecosystem just works in a way that you will never experience with Linux I do Linux kernel development. Will that _just work_ on a Mac too?

eatonphil 5y ago
Not a Mac fan but you don't test kernel changes in a VM?
- ajross 5y ago
  Statistically, basically all kernel developers are working on hardware support of one form or another. They might run changes in an appropriate simulator[1] if they have it, but the community of people able to do the bulk of their work in a desktop VM is quite small. [1] OS X support for which tends to be a pain point too, while most vendors tend to have some kind of Linux product this is still very much a windows world.
cassianoleal 5y ago
Surely you can understand that Linux kernel development might fall outside of "so much of the ecosystem", and in this case the statement still holds!
mr_o47 5y ago
Just curious do kernel developers use mac
throwaway3neu94 5y ago
Yes. At our company, we do a lot of kernel development. Most devs are issued Macs, some Thinkpads with Windows. Very few run Linux locally, as IT doesn't like it. We have Linux shell servers for development. They compile much faster than laptops anyway. The actual test systems are separate as well. You don't want to test on the machine you develop on generally (it'd be extremely annoying to not be able to edit code while waiting for the reboot to get the new kernel, and to loose your open windows for every iteration. Also what if it oopses?), and in our case that wouldn't work anyway (special HW). Most use vim in screen, and VS Code with it's native SSH remote host support is also very nice. If it works for dozens of our engineers, it can work for you if you're willing.

satysin 5y ago

> if you learn to do everything Apple's way instead of trying to customize things to work your way Agree 100%. It is frustrating at first as I have worked the way I work since forever but over the course of a few weeks I noticed many of the changes were actual improvements saving me time and/or making my life easier. Not always but a lot of the time the "Apple way" is actually well thought out and reduces friction elsewhere in my workflow. It was a classic case of being blind to my own inefficiencies as that was just what I was used to and it worked. The nice thing about macOS (and Windows now with WSL) is all the unix/posix tools I was used to on Linux work the same (or near enough) that switching wasn't difficult or particularly painful. The only thing I really miss when using macOS compared to Linux and Windows is top tier window management. I use Magnet (have also used Amethyst) to make life a little easier but macOS still has the worst implementation of managing windows. I am used to it now so it isn't a huge issue and the benefits of the platform far outweigh this one little area of annoyance but if I could change any one thing about macOS it would be to really overhaul the way windows are managed.