6 ms·

Being able to access real people for support should be a mandatory requirement for big corporations offering services to the public directly.

vidarh 5y ago
In the UK you have a right to have automated decisions on e.g. loan applications reviewed by a human. Broadening a right like that would certainly be worth considering.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  The GDPR has exactly this provision. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-22-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-22-gdpr/
exporectomy 5y ago
No. Mandating real people won't help. I've dealt with real support people who are exactly as useless as the website's FAQ. They're powerless to make any special exceptions to the predefined process or even to escalate to someone who can. As an example, I can't use my main email address for an Apple ID account because apparently somebody else set it as their backup email and I may have carelessly clicked the accept link when I got the confirmation. I talked to a human Apple support person and his higher level colleague and was told that's probably what happened but they can't know for sure and even if they did, they can't fix it. The end. Bye.
- plasma 5y ago
  You could try doing an account recovery (leverage that email) and just change it to something else.
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    I think I lost the email which was many years prior, and also I would need to know the actual email of the account it's linked to, which I don't.
- katbyte 5y ago
  at least you spoke to someone and now know why your screwed vs an automated AI system that doesn't tell you anything /s
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    To be fair one of the major drivers of quack medicine is that there are still a lot of problems where science based medicine will eventually go "We don't know what's wrong with you, but it's probably not something we can fix, so it just sucks to be you right now." It may be the best most honest answer, but a lot of people would rather have a name for what's wrong with them, even if there's no cure, and a treatment, even if it doesn't work.
- libertine 5y ago
  >Mandating real people won't help. Mandating real people COULD help, bust sometimes it doesn't - yet this is by design. For example, Amazon Seller Support renders humans into bots because they can only reply with templates (it's like they have humans teaching machines what to reply from a fixed set of replies) - of course this is a shitshow. If you get a cryptic reply, you have to figure it out, just to reply and get the same response, and then to finally get a "case is closed".
- DreamScatter 5y ago
  At least it's better than nothing.
TheManInThePub 5y ago
> Being able to access real people for support should be a mandatory requirement. Being able to appeal an automated decision to a real person is a mandatory requirement under the GDPR. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/my-rights/can-i-be-subject-automated-individual-decision-making-including-profiling_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Especially noteworthy here: > The data protection law establishes that you have the right not to be subject to a decision based solely on automated means, if the decision produces legal effects concerning you or significantly affects you in a similar way. That seems to me (IANAL etc) like it could be used to argue that you need to be able to appeal to a real person who actually has the power to do something about the problem. Because these examples like in the GP(?) where one gets hold of a real person who claims they can't do anything because "that's just how the system works"... Well, then they're not really "a person" in the sense that I'm fairly sure has to be the one meant here; they're just another cog in the automated means.
- anoncow 5y ago
  I didn't know this. Thank you. I hope FB finally allows me to appeal against the block they have placed on my domain on sharing debugger citing "community guidelines".
mxcrossb 5y ago
Or in this case, maybe we should be relaxing the legal requirements that lead to YouTube trying to enforce copyright.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
  While that would be good, I don't think this would solve anything on Youtube. In the end Youtube is heavily courting the music companies with the way they do things, it's not about the actual law. See the whole world of educational music youtubers, they are well within their rights to do quite a few things, but in reality they can't even perform certain short guitar riffs themselves without getting flagged.

vidarh 5y ago

In the UK you have a right to have automated decisions on e.g. loan applications reviewed by a human. Broadening a right like that would certainly be worth considering.

Symbiote 5y ago
The GDPR has exactly this provision. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-22-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-22-gdpr/

exporectomy 5y ago

No. Mandating real people won't help. I've dealt with real support people who are exactly as useless as the website's FAQ. They're powerless to make any special exceptions to the predefined process or even to escalate to someone who can. As an example, I can't use my main email address for an Apple ID account because apparently somebody else set it as their backup email and I may have carelessly clicked the accept link when I got the confirmation. I talked to a human Apple support person and his higher level colleague and was told that's probably what happened but they can't know for sure and even if they did, they can't fix it. The end. Bye.

plasma 5y ago
You could try doing an account recovery (leverage that email) and just change it to something else.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  I think I lost the email which was many years prior, and also I would need to know the actual email of the account it's linked to, which I don't.
katbyte 5y ago
at least you spoke to someone and now know why your screwed vs an automated AI system that doesn't tell you anything /s
- saalweachter 5y ago
  To be fair one of the major drivers of quack medicine is that there are still a lot of problems where science based medicine will eventually go "We don't know what's wrong with you, but it's probably not something we can fix, so it just sucks to be you right now." It may be the best most honest answer, but a lot of people would rather have a name for what's wrong with them, even if there's no cure, and a treatment, even if it doesn't work.
libertine 5y ago
>Mandating real people won't help. Mandating real people COULD help, bust sometimes it doesn't - yet this is by design. For example, Amazon Seller Support renders humans into bots because they can only reply with templates (it's like they have humans teaching machines what to reply from a fixed set of replies) - of course this is a shitshow. If you get a cryptic reply, you have to figure it out, just to reply and get the same response, and then to finally get a "case is closed".
DreamScatter 5y ago
At least it's better than nothing.

TheManInThePub 5y ago

> Being able to access real people for support should be a mandatory requirement. Being able to appeal an automated decision to a real person is a mandatory requirement under the GDPR. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/my-rights/can-i-be-subject-automated-individual-decision-making-including-profiling_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...

CRConrad 5y ago
Especially noteworthy here: > The data protection law establishes that you have the right not to be subject to a decision based solely on automated means, if the decision produces legal effects concerning you or significantly affects you in a similar way. That seems to me (IANAL etc) like it could be used to argue that you need to be able to appeal to a real person who actually has the power to do something about the problem. Because these examples like in the GP(?) where one gets hold of a real person who claims they can't do anything because "that's just how the system works"... Well, then they're not really "a person" in the sense that I'm fairly sure has to be the one meant here; they're just another cog in the automated means.
anoncow 5y ago
I didn't know this. Thank you. I hope FB finally allows me to appeal against the block they have placed on my domain on sharing debugger citing "community guidelines".

mxcrossb 5y ago

Or in this case, maybe we should be relaxing the legal requirements that lead to YouTube trying to enforce copyright.

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
While that would be good, I don't think this would solve anything on Youtube. In the end Youtube is heavily courting the music companies with the way they do things, it's not about the actual law. See the whole world of educational music youtubers, they are well within their rights to do quite a few things, but in reality they can't even perform certain short guitar riffs themselves without getting flagged.