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> This is, to begin with, not true. I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when

> This is, to begin with, not true. I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists.

plankers 6y ago
It does get old eventually.
syshum 6y ago
I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia that the rest of the world should look to as a model. I do not want the US to be Europe, that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Stop trying to make the US into the EU
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia I never said Europe was Utopia. All I said was, decent living. > that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism Ah yes. Says the person from a country where charities stop giving aid to poor African countries and redirect their aid to Americans. > If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Those who have the means to, do.
  - danielrpa 6y ago
    I've never known anyone here in the US (friend, coworker, family member, acquaintance etc - Internet forums don't count) who has moved to Europe permanently. I know that many do, obviously, I just don't one personally. At the same time, I personally know many Europeans living here and have seen many more coming over the years. I can't find hard data, but probably we should not say that "those who have the means to, do". It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do".
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      > It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do". Yes. However, the main reason I phrased it the way I did is that "if you don't like it, move to a different continent" is a very arrogant approach. An American barely surviving on minimum wage is very unlikely to move to Europe.
      - danielrpa 6y ago
        Interestingly, America is one of the best places to be if you are wealthy (part of the motivation on this thread). So it's also unlikely for a wealthy American to move. Believe it or not, a lot people, in poverty or otherwise, really like the unique things in this country and most would rather have it this way than to move to Europe (which has its own share of major problems despite being a cool place overall).
        dmitriid 6y ago
        This article is still relevant: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/19/europe-paradise-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/19/europe... Also, poor people rarely know the reality of other countries. I have friends in the States who firmly believe that Europe is a hellhole even though they are literally a medical emergency away from a bankruptcy.
        syshum 6y ago
        Maybe that is because they value something more than Free Healthcare. Maybe they are not willing to trade this liberty for the safety of government services.....
        dmitriid 6y ago
        Ah yes. The liberty to die. The liberty to go with untreated chronic diseases. The liberty of not being able to change shitty jobs.
        6y ago
ddingus 6y ago
Only 30 percent of the USA travels abroad.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists. In Europe there are zero businesses operating at the margin that would go under if unable to staff their operation? That was the thing you are responding to.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  The thing I was responding to was, "we can't raise the minimum wage because if we do businesses will go under" Well, Europe did raise minimum wages. Undoubtedly, some businesses did go under when that happened... So what? Did business cease to exist in Europe?

> This is, to begin with, not true. I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists.

plankers 6y ago

It does get old eventually.

syshum 6y ago

I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia that the rest of the world should look to as a model. I do not want the US to be Europe, that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Stop trying to make the US into the EU

dmitriid 6y ago
> I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia I never said Europe was Utopia. All I said was, decent living. > that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism Ah yes. Says the person from a country where charities stop giving aid to poor African countries and redirect their aid to Americans. > If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Those who have the means to, do.
- danielrpa 6y ago
  I've never known anyone here in the US (friend, coworker, family member, acquaintance etc - Internet forums don't count) who has moved to Europe permanently. I know that many do, obviously, I just don't one personally. At the same time, I personally know many Europeans living here and have seen many more coming over the years. I can't find hard data, but probably we should not say that "those who have the means to, do". It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do".
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    > It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do". Yes. However, the main reason I phrased it the way I did is that "if you don't like it, move to a different continent" is a very arrogant approach. An American barely surviving on minimum wage is very unlikely to move to Europe.
    - danielrpa 6y ago
      Interestingly, America is one of the best places to be if you are wealthy (part of the motivation on this thread). So it's also unlikely for a wealthy American to move. Believe it or not, a lot people, in poverty or otherwise, really like the unique things in this country and most would rather have it this way than to move to Europe (which has its own share of major problems despite being a cool place overall).
      - dmitriid 6y ago
        This article is still relevant: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/19/europe-paradise-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/19/europe... Also, poor people rarely know the reality of other countries. I have friends in the States who firmly believe that Europe is a hellhole even though they are literally a medical emergency away from a bankruptcy.
        syshum 6y ago
        Maybe that is because they value something more than Free Healthcare. Maybe they are not willing to trade this liberty for the safety of government services.....
        dmitriid 6y ago
        Ah yes. The liberty to die. The liberty to go with untreated chronic diseases. The liberty of not being able to change shitty jobs.
        6y ago

ddingus 6y ago

Only 30 percent of the USA travels abroad.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists. In Europe there are zero businesses operating at the margin that would go under if unable to staff their operation? That was the thing you are responding to.

dmitriid 6y ago
The thing I was responding to was, "we can't raise the minimum wage because if we do businesses will go under" Well, Europe did raise minimum wages. Undoubtedly, some businesses did go under when that happened... So what? Did business cease to exist in Europe?