4 ms·

America - land of freedom and democracy, where all are created equal... you must do exactly as your boss says without question though. The workplace is a magic

America - land of freedom and democracy, where all are created equal... you must do exactly as your boss says without question though. The workplace is a magic alternate dimension where totalitarianism is suddenly good, for some reason.

wutbrodo 5y ago
> you must do exactly as your boss says without question though. You left off "if you want your boss to give you gobs of money every two weeks".
- barsonme 5y ago
  It’s a two-way street, though. If you’re a half-decent software engineer there are tons of bosses willing to give you gobs of money. And smart bosses recognize that.
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    Absolutely. But the idea that this is a "totalitarian" deficiency in the country's provision of negative rights is ludicrous.
    - djrobstep 5y ago
      Let me guess: Your conception of "negative" rights includes the right to violate the negative liberty of others by positively attacking them in the name of property law enforcement?
- djrobstep 5y ago
  "Do what I say or I'll cut off your income, depriving you of food and shelter" is exactly the kind of authoritarianism I'm talking about.
  - missedthecue 5y ago
    Basecamp isn't the only way on earth that these people can make an income
    - djrobstep 5y ago
      So as long as you can take your pick between a number of different authoritarian situations, that's OK?
      - cercatrova 5y ago
        Are you a socialist/communist? I've only heard socialists talk in these types of terms, "authoritarian" "totalitarian" etc when referring to the workplace.
        djrobstep 5y ago
        I'm simply trying to get to the heart of people's beliefs, and understand why they think the way they do.
        cercatrova 5y ago
        Well I'd say that companies, unlike governments in a nation, are myriad, and one has choices as to where to go. Similarly, the founders should retain as much control as they wish, as do the employees, as it's a bilateral contract. Now, for companies that essentially force workers to work, such as minimum wage shops, I have no sympathy for them.
        djrobstep 5y ago
        Governments are myriad, just like companies are. There are hundreds to choose from, and one has choices as to where to go.
        5y ago
anm89 5y ago
You fundamentally do not understand the definition of totalitarianism which is why, you, simply lofting that word at everyone in every direction to blanket disparage things you don't like results in 90% of your comment history being greyed out. I know I'm wasting my time here but here is the first three definitions of totalitarianism I was able to find : (emphasis mine) > Britannica: Totalitarianism: *form of government* that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of individual life to the authority of the state. > Google : relating to a *system of government* that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state. > Dictionary.com : of or relating to a *centralized government* that does not tolerate parties of differing opinion and that exercises dictatorial control over many aspects of life. A business is not a government and you are using the term in a meaningless context so you are going to have to forgive everyone else for pointing out that what you are saying makes absolutely zero sense.
- djrobstep 5y ago
  > A business is not a government Yes it is, hence the existence of concepts like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_governance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_governance and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_democracy Employers have a great deal of authority of their employee's lives - to that extent they govern their employees. This is all straightforward, conventional usage of these words and terms. Government also makes the rules about how businesses operate (property law, contract law, and so forth), and give businesses the right to enforce them - in this way, businesses are an extension of government in the control they have over our lives. All you're doing is question-begging the exact premise I'm critiquing in the first place: That the workplace is in a magic separate dimension where principles usually agreed to be good (democracy, equality) are no longer desirable or even applicable.
  - anm89 5y ago
    That is honestly probably the single dumbest things I've ever seen written on hacker news. Congrats.

wutbrodo 5y ago

> you must do exactly as your boss says without question though. You left off "if you want your boss to give you gobs of money every two weeks".

barsonme 5y ago
It’s a two-way street, though. If you’re a half-decent software engineer there are tons of bosses willing to give you gobs of money. And smart bosses recognize that.
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  Absolutely. But the idea that this is a "totalitarian" deficiency in the country's provision of negative rights is ludicrous.
  - djrobstep 5y ago
    Let me guess: Your conception of "negative" rights includes the right to violate the negative liberty of others by positively attacking them in the name of property law enforcement?
djrobstep 5y ago
"Do what I say or I'll cut off your income, depriving you of food and shelter" is exactly the kind of authoritarianism I'm talking about.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Basecamp isn't the only way on earth that these people can make an income
  - djrobstep 5y ago
    So as long as you can take your pick between a number of different authoritarian situations, that's OK?
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      Are you a socialist/communist? I've only heard socialists talk in these types of terms, "authoritarian" "totalitarian" etc when referring to the workplace.
      - djrobstep 5y ago
        I'm simply trying to get to the heart of people's beliefs, and understand why they think the way they do.
        cercatrova 5y ago
        Well I'd say that companies, unlike governments in a nation, are myriad, and one has choices as to where to go. Similarly, the founders should retain as much control as they wish, as do the employees, as it's a bilateral contract. Now, for companies that essentially force workers to work, such as minimum wage shops, I have no sympathy for them.
        djrobstep 5y ago
        Governments are myriad, just like companies are. There are hundreds to choose from, and one has choices as to where to go.
        5y ago

anm89 5y ago

You fundamentally do not understand the definition of totalitarianism which is why, you, simply lofting that word at everyone in every direction to blanket disparage things you don't like results in 90% of your comment history being greyed out. I know I'm wasting my time here but here is the first three definitions of totalitarianism I was able to find : (emphasis mine) > Britannica: Totalitarianism: *form of government* that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of individual life to the authority of the state. > Google : relating to a *system of government* that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state. > Dictionary.com : of or relating to a *centralized government* that does not tolerate parties of differing opinion and that exercises dictatorial control over many aspects of life. A business is not a government and you are using the term in a meaningless context so you are going to have to forgive everyone else for pointing out that what you are saying makes absolutely zero sense.

djrobstep 5y ago
> A business is not a government Yes it is, hence the existence of concepts like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_governance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_governance and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_democracy Employers have a great deal of authority of their employee's lives - to that extent they govern their employees. This is all straightforward, conventional usage of these words and terms. Government also makes the rules about how businesses operate (property law, contract law, and so forth), and give businesses the right to enforce them - in this way, businesses are an extension of government in the control they have over our lives. All you're doing is question-begging the exact premise I'm critiquing in the first place: That the workplace is in a magic separate dimension where principles usually agreed to be good (democracy, equality) are no longer desirable or even applicable.
- anm89 5y ago
  That is honestly probably the single dumbest things I've ever seen written on hacker news. Congrats.