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They’re not just hemorrhaging employees, they’re hemorrhaging customers too. I know I will never give them money. This looks like a fatal blow, not a place som

They’re not just hemorrhaging employees, they’re hemorrhaging customers too. I know I will never give them money. This looks like a fatal blow, not a place someone would want to work. I’m sure they’re hiring though so you could probably get a job there and ride it out to the end.

cercatrova 5y ago
> they’re hemorrhaging customers too I doubt that, most companies could not care less about the internal affairs of their tools' companies, unless it impacts the tools' performance and featureset, something we still await to see regarding Basecamp, whether they can successfully plug the employee hemorrhage wound and get new employees working on the product.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  Companies do definitely care about PR, however, and can easily get called out for associating with known bad actors.
- dylan604 5y ago
  > most companies could not care less about the internal affairs of their tools' companies Most might be broad. Lots of companies absolutely care about the interal workings of their vendors. They can and do make decisions on these kinds of factors, especially if a large contract is on the line or they are looking for that last thing to separate 2 viable candidates. All companies doing manufacturing in places like Asia are constantly being looked at by human rights organizations to ensure the employees are being treated as humans. Personally, I won't do business with companies like Uber (even with new leadership), Wal-Mart, etc based on things reported about them.
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    Sure, depends on industry, I was talking about tech specifically. And in tech, many might care, but most will not.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Apple, Google, Amazon isn't tech with their manufacturing in Asia? Uber lost a lot with revelations of the fratbro leadership and corporate culture. Theranos lost everything when people looked into the fradulent practices. Lots of tech companies have felt blowback because of internal policies.
- wyclif 5y ago
  they’re hemorrhaging customers too No evidence of this whatsoever. A bluecheck on Twitter loudly proclaiming that he's not going to pay $99/yr for email (HEY) or never using Basecamp again doesn't count. Citation needed.
  - solosoyokaze 5y ago
    Bluecheck Twitter we’re the only people using Basecamp in the first place. They just destroyed their core market.
- solosoyokaze 5y ago
  Most companies do actually evaluate their vendors. Basecamp built a brand on “management” and just proved they’re maybe the worst in the industry at it. Only on HN are people supporting them. It’s a dead company walking.
digitaltrees 5y ago
What is it that you object to specifically that would motivate your decision not to do business with them in the future?
- mixologic 5y ago
  If a vendor we were working with lost a third of their employees, I would question whether that vendor would be a good long term relationship, regardless of what caused the exodus.
- gostsamo 5y ago
  I don't want to worry if my name is funny enough to be included in a list of jerks. That's ugly behavior and I don't want to have business with people that are looking for reasons to disrespect me.
  - digitaltrees 5y ago
    I respect your position. When I was a kid my best friend called my sandy toes because my last name was Santos. If my name sounded like a Swedish curse word I wouldn’t be mad because a Swede laughed at my name. Maybe part of healing division as humor and laughter. If we can’t take a joke we can’t share the connection of humor with others.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      >If we can’t take a joke we can’t share the connection of humor with others. As an adult that has spent their entire life hear the same old tired jokes about their name, I could easily see/sympathize with them for no longer being amused by something that would make a 10 year old boy chuckle.
    - gostsamo 5y ago
      It is one think to have a laugh at something unexpected. Such things happen. Trying to maintain such a list and to keep it around for years is another level of objectivizing that is far from professional. In addition, if they are so easy to one's name, it is likely that they will try to look for other sources of fun: accent, looks, type of issue.
innocentoldguy 5y ago
I just signed up for Basecamp and Hey because I’m sick of all the fascist bullshit from companies like Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. I LOVE the fact that Basecamp told their employees to keep that “woke” shit at home and am happy to support their stance with my money.
- MattRix 5y ago
  Ah right, the employees that were told to keep quiet by their employer are the fascists. Got it.
- cercatrova 5y ago
  I am also tempted to use their products now, even though I don't necessarily see their value inherently (they just don't fit my style of apps) simply to reward their behavior.
- solosoyokaze 5y ago
  The idea of a bunch of right wing reactionaries using ultra crappy Web 2.0 project management software out of spite is actually rather amusing. There’s not enough of you guys to keep it alive though (not that you really did this).
  - innocentoldguy 5y ago
    It's not the "right-wing" that brought us cancel-culture, Sprinkles. You may want to rethink your commentary.
    - solosoyokaze 5y ago
      “Cancel culture” has never been uttered by anyone who’s not on the far right. You all created this boogeyman and it keeps you up at night. The rest of us just call it what it is: consequences for your actions.

cercatrova 5y ago

> they’re hemorrhaging customers too I doubt that, most companies could not care less about the internal affairs of their tools' companies, unless it impacts the tools' performance and featureset, something we still await to see regarding Basecamp, whether they can successfully plug the employee hemorrhage wound and get new employees working on the product.

sombremesa 5y ago
Companies do definitely care about PR, however, and can easily get called out for associating with known bad actors.
dylan604 5y ago
> most companies could not care less about the internal affairs of their tools' companies Most might be broad. Lots of companies absolutely care about the interal workings of their vendors. They can and do make decisions on these kinds of factors, especially if a large contract is on the line or they are looking for that last thing to separate 2 viable candidates. All companies doing manufacturing in places like Asia are constantly being looked at by human rights organizations to ensure the employees are being treated as humans. Personally, I won't do business with companies like Uber (even with new leadership), Wal-Mart, etc based on things reported about them.
- cercatrova 5y ago
  Sure, depends on industry, I was talking about tech specifically. And in tech, many might care, but most will not.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Apple, Google, Amazon isn't tech with their manufacturing in Asia? Uber lost a lot with revelations of the fratbro leadership and corporate culture. Theranos lost everything when people looked into the fradulent practices. Lots of tech companies have felt blowback because of internal policies.
wyclif 5y ago
they’re hemorrhaging customers too No evidence of this whatsoever. A bluecheck on Twitter loudly proclaiming that he's not going to pay $99/yr for email (HEY) or never using Basecamp again doesn't count. Citation needed.
- solosoyokaze 5y ago
  Bluecheck Twitter we’re the only people using Basecamp in the first place. They just destroyed their core market.
solosoyokaze 5y ago
Most companies do actually evaluate their vendors. Basecamp built a brand on “management” and just proved they’re maybe the worst in the industry at it. Only on HN are people supporting them. It’s a dead company walking.

digitaltrees 5y ago

What is it that you object to specifically that would motivate your decision not to do business with them in the future?

mixologic 5y ago
If a vendor we were working with lost a third of their employees, I would question whether that vendor would be a good long term relationship, regardless of what caused the exodus.
gostsamo 5y ago
I don't want to worry if my name is funny enough to be included in a list of jerks. That's ugly behavior and I don't want to have business with people that are looking for reasons to disrespect me.
- digitaltrees 5y ago
  I respect your position. When I was a kid my best friend called my sandy toes because my last name was Santos. If my name sounded like a Swedish curse word I wouldn’t be mad because a Swede laughed at my name. Maybe part of healing division as humor and laughter. If we can’t take a joke we can’t share the connection of humor with others.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    >If we can’t take a joke we can’t share the connection of humor with others. As an adult that has spent their entire life hear the same old tired jokes about their name, I could easily see/sympathize with them for no longer being amused by something that would make a 10 year old boy chuckle.
  - gostsamo 5y ago
    It is one think to have a laugh at something unexpected. Such things happen. Trying to maintain such a list and to keep it around for years is another level of objectivizing that is far from professional. In addition, if they are so easy to one's name, it is likely that they will try to look for other sources of fun: accent, looks, type of issue.

innocentoldguy 5y ago

I just signed up for Basecamp and Hey because I’m sick of all the fascist bullshit from companies like Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. I LOVE the fact that Basecamp told their employees to keep that “woke” shit at home and am happy to support their stance with my money.

MattRix 5y ago
Ah right, the employees that were told to keep quiet by their employer are the fascists. Got it.
cercatrova 5y ago
I am also tempted to use their products now, even though I don't necessarily see their value inherently (they just don't fit my style of apps) simply to reward their behavior.
solosoyokaze 5y ago
The idea of a bunch of right wing reactionaries using ultra crappy Web 2.0 project management software out of spite is actually rather amusing. There’s not enough of you guys to keep it alive though (not that you really did this).
- innocentoldguy 5y ago
  It's not the "right-wing" that brought us cancel-culture, Sprinkles. You may want to rethink your commentary.
  - solosoyokaze 5y ago
    “Cancel culture” has never been uttered by anyone who’s not on the far right. You all created this boogeyman and it keeps you up at night. The rest of us just call it what it is: consequences for your actions.