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And I'm reading the company was ~60 employees, all remote. In a business that small, it's difficult to imagine how far the culture was off the rails to have 20

And I'm reading the company was ~60 employees, all remote. In a business that small, it's difficult to imagine how far the culture was off the rails to have 20 people focusing time and effort on something like a D&I committee.

jrochkind1 5y ago
If you don't think DE&I is important, than of course you think it's "off the rails" to have 20 people spending time and effort on it. If you do think it's important, then there'd be nothing "off the rails" about having mass participation in it. Oddly, according to the coverage, the owners had previously said publicly and internally that they thought it was important. The owners had previously been very publicly and assertively taking very "liberal" and "progressive" positions. They have been on the "wrong" side of the "culture wars" for those who think it's "off the rails" to be spending signficant time and effort on DE&I. "Hansson had encouraged employees to read Between the World and Me, a memoir by Ta-Nehisi Coates, and The New Jim Crow... Both founders are also active — and occasionally hyperactive — on Twitter, where they regularly advocate for mainstream liberal and progressive views on social issues." I wonder how it will feel to them to become the darlings of people very opposed to those positions they had been taking, as seen in these threads. I wonder if the owners will become born-again to the right-wing side of the "culture wars".
- moduspol 5y ago
  Nobody said it wasn't important, but 20 out of 60 people focusing on it in a remote company that builds unrelated software is absolutely off the rails. You're essentially paying 1/3 of your employees to come up with new ways to suggest the other 2/3 need to stop being so racist / sexist / bigoted. It's difficult to imagine a more self-destructive culture. > Oddly, according to the coverage, the owners had previously said publicly and internally that they thought it was important. No owners would publicly say D&I are not important. > I wonder how it will feel to them to become the darlings of people very opposed to those positions they had been taking, as seen in these threads. I'm sure these decisions only came about after some hard looks in the mirror.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    Right, if you think DE&I consists of "new ways to suggest everyone else stop being so racist / sexist / bigoted", you're clearly not into it. You realize those who think it's important don't think that's what it is, right? If 20 employees were on the "social" committee planning a holiday party, would you consider that as "off the rails", because you are paying them (some here unspecified number of hours) to throw a damn party? I doubt anyone would get that up in arms about it. I get it, you think DE&I is a mistake, (unless you think coming up with new ways to tell people to stop being racist is not a mistake? But I think you were clear), so the more people involved in it, the bigger the mistake. But if someone thinks it's important, perhaps even more important than a holiday party, then the more people involved in it the better, and having a large portion of the company involved in it is not a mistake. That's it.
    - anon7725 5y ago
      > If 20 employees were on the "social" committee planning a holiday party, would you consider that as "off the rails" The party planning committee would presumably not try to dictate which vendors the company deals with and which speaker is at the next all-hands meeting.
      - jachee 5y ago
        If you think a party planning committee doesn't have real power and influence, bring nothing but carrot cakes and oatmeal raisin cookies to your next party.
    - moduspol 5y ago
      > Right, if you think DE&I consists of "new ways to suggest everyone else stop being so racist / sexist / bigoted", you're clearly not into it. There's no other way for 20 out of 58 people to spend any significant length of time focused on D&I of the company they work for. 1 out of 58? Maybe. But 20? There's only one way this thing can end. > If 20 employees were on the "social" committee planning a holiday party, would you consider that as "off the rails", because you are paying them (some here unspecified number of hours) to throw a damn party? I doubt anyone would get that up in arms about it. A party planning committee is not targeting the rest of the company. > I get it, you think DE&I is a mistake, I didn't say it was a mistake. I said 1/3 of a small remote company focused on it shows it was off the rails. Maybe they should have just joined in. Each of the 58 employees could be brainstorming ways the other 57 employees can be less bigoted. Just hope they could find some time to write software, too.
- anon7725 5y ago
  > I wonder how it will feel to them to become the darlings of people very opposed to those positions they had been taking, as seen in these threads. I wonder if the owners will become born-again to the right-wing side of the "culture wars". Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, right wingers are not the only people opposed to woke insanity.
  - rriepe 5y ago
    You're posting this anonymously because you know that's not true. Right wingers are, by definition, the people who speak out against the woke insanity. That's how the culture war works.
    - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
      So DHH is a right winger now?
      - rriepe 5y ago
        Pretty much yeah. Any coverage (left or right!) of him from now on will include this stuff and paint him in that light. I think he's one step away from people disrupting his events and not being able to speak on college campuses.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - digitaltrees 5y ago
      I am not posting anonymously. I identify as a liberal. My other posts probably indicate that. But I think any ideology that divides humanity into a group based on social or racial factors is unfair and perpetuates harmful divisions rather than inclusion. If “woke” arguments divide according to race, class or social history then such arguments are simply inverting racism and classism rather than moving forward to a more inclusive unified world.
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      There is a whole class of not only liberals but leftists (socialists, communists) who oppose identity politics: r/stupidpol. I know because I frequent that subreddit. So you're not correct, it's not just right wingers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's a 2D plane of opinions: liberal/conservative on one axis, moderation/extremism on the other.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jrochkind1 5y ago

If you don't think DE&I is important, than of course you think it's "off the rails" to have 20 people spending time and effort on it. If you do think it's important, then there'd be nothing "off the rails" about having mass participation in it. Oddly, according to the coverage, the owners had previously said publicly and internally that they thought it was important. The owners had previously been very publicly and assertively taking very "liberal" and "progressive" positions. They have been on the "wrong" side of the "culture wars" for those who think it's "off the rails" to be spending signficant time and effort on DE&I. "Hansson had encouraged employees to read Between the World and Me, a memoir by Ta-Nehisi Coates, and The New Jim Crow... Both founders are also active — and occasionally hyperactive — on Twitter, where they regularly advocate for mainstream liberal and progressive views on social issues." I wonder how it will feel to them to become the darlings of people very opposed to those positions they had been taking, as seen in these threads. I wonder if the owners will become born-again to the right-wing side of the "culture wars".

moduspol 5y ago
Nobody said it wasn't important, but 20 out of 60 people focusing on it in a remote company that builds unrelated software is absolutely off the rails. You're essentially paying 1/3 of your employees to come up with new ways to suggest the other 2/3 need to stop being so racist / sexist / bigoted. It's difficult to imagine a more self-destructive culture. > Oddly, according to the coverage, the owners had previously said publicly and internally that they thought it was important. No owners would publicly say D&I are not important. > I wonder how it will feel to them to become the darlings of people very opposed to those positions they had been taking, as seen in these threads. I'm sure these decisions only came about after some hard looks in the mirror.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  Right, if you think DE&I consists of "new ways to suggest everyone else stop being so racist / sexist / bigoted", you're clearly not into it. You realize those who think it's important don't think that's what it is, right? If 20 employees were on the "social" committee planning a holiday party, would you consider that as "off the rails", because you are paying them (some here unspecified number of hours) to throw a damn party? I doubt anyone would get that up in arms about it. I get it, you think DE&I is a mistake, (unless you think coming up with new ways to tell people to stop being racist is not a mistake? But I think you were clear), so the more people involved in it, the bigger the mistake. But if someone thinks it's important, perhaps even more important than a holiday party, then the more people involved in it the better, and having a large portion of the company involved in it is not a mistake. That's it.
  - anon7725 5y ago
    > If 20 employees were on the "social" committee planning a holiday party, would you consider that as "off the rails" The party planning committee would presumably not try to dictate which vendors the company deals with and which speaker is at the next all-hands meeting.
    - jachee 5y ago
      If you think a party planning committee doesn't have real power and influence, bring nothing but carrot cakes and oatmeal raisin cookies to your next party.
  - moduspol 5y ago
    > Right, if you think DE&I consists of "new ways to suggest everyone else stop being so racist / sexist / bigoted", you're clearly not into it. There's no other way for 20 out of 58 people to spend any significant length of time focused on D&I of the company they work for. 1 out of 58? Maybe. But 20? There's only one way this thing can end. > If 20 employees were on the "social" committee planning a holiday party, would you consider that as "off the rails", because you are paying them (some here unspecified number of hours) to throw a damn party? I doubt anyone would get that up in arms about it. A party planning committee is not targeting the rest of the company. > I get it, you think DE&I is a mistake, I didn't say it was a mistake. I said 1/3 of a small remote company focused on it shows it was off the rails. Maybe they should have just joined in. Each of the 58 employees could be brainstorming ways the other 57 employees can be less bigoted. Just hope they could find some time to write software, too.
anon7725 5y ago
> I wonder how it will feel to them to become the darlings of people very opposed to those positions they had been taking, as seen in these threads. I wonder if the owners will become born-again to the right-wing side of the "culture wars". Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, right wingers are not the only people opposed to woke insanity.
- rriepe 5y ago
  You're posting this anonymously because you know that's not true. Right wingers are, by definition, the people who speak out against the woke insanity. That's how the culture war works.
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    So DHH is a right winger now?
    - rriepe 5y ago
      Pretty much yeah. Any coverage (left or right!) of him from now on will include this stuff and paint him in that light. I think he's one step away from people disrupting his events and not being able to speak on college campuses.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - digitaltrees 5y ago
    I am not posting anonymously. I identify as a liberal. My other posts probably indicate that. But I think any ideology that divides humanity into a group based on social or racial factors is unfair and perpetuates harmful divisions rather than inclusion. If “woke” arguments divide according to race, class or social history then such arguments are simply inverting racism and classism rather than moving forward to a more inclusive unified world.
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    There is a whole class of not only liberals but leftists (socialists, communists) who oppose identity politics: r/stupidpol. I know because I frequent that subreddit. So you're not correct, it's not just right wingers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's a 2D plane of opinions: liberal/conservative on one axis, moderation/extremism on the other.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]