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Currently, US capitalists exploit workers both in the US and in poorer countries, with the later being super-exploited. Under this arrangement, the vast majorit

by lucian1900 5y ago

Currently, US capitalists exploit workers both in the US and in poorer countries, with the later being super-exploited. Under this arrangement, the vast majority of the value created by both groups of workers is captured by a handful of capitalists. A socialist US would cease exploiting other countries (including China) and instead pursue mutually beneficial trade (much like China does). This would likely include some amount of reparations and re-building of local industry, easily funded with the vast amount of value no longer stolen from all workers.

IdiocyInAction 5y ago
Exploitation that ultimately helped lift a billion people out of poverty in China. A socialist US would probably, like most prior countries that called themselves socialist, be a poor, oppressive hellhole.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  Poverty has decreased in China in spite of US imperialism, not because of it. Most notably, poor capitalist countries have had poverty increase in the past several decades instead. All countries that have had a successful socialist revolution so far were oppressed impoverished ones. They all then went on to develop very quickly, in spite of constant attack from the imperialist countries. An already-developed former imperialist country would face no such challenges.
  - parineum 5y ago
    China lifted itself out of poverty when it became a capitalist, dictatorial oligarchy.
    - lucian1900 5y ago
      No. It was only allowed to develop after making deep concessions to imperialism, including special economic areas where capitalism is allowed. Thankfully the working class is still in control of the state, as we’ve seen the limits on capitalism tightened recently, especially during covid.
      - parineum 5y ago
        You think the working class is in control of China? The working class that has nets installed in their job provided dormatories because too many of them are commiting suicide? Those people are nearly slaves.
        lucian1900 5y ago
        A certain level of exploitation is demanded by imperialists in exchange for capital investment and allowing trade. The working class of any victim nation is forced to accept deregulation like this if they wish a change at developing. Vietnam made a similar choice in a similar position. In both countries working conditions and labour laws have been steadily improving. This change is only possible if the workers as a class are in control of the state.
parineum 5y ago
US trade with China is currently mutually beneficial. That's why China participates. Give me more detail on what that means. If the US Communist party took over absolute leadership of the US tomorrow, what differences would there be in the US China trade agreement.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  The amount of benefit is not equal. Imperialist countries (US, western EU, etc.) have extremely favourable terms obtained under military threat. Often onerous terms are imposed, like privatisations or deregulation. One recent example is Bolivia’s rare earth mining. A German company was offering only ~5% of the value of extracted material in exchange for the capital required, while a Chinese SOE offered 50%. Not long after there was a US-backed fascist coup which was only recently defeated.
  - parineum 5y ago
    Still no specifics.
    - lucian1900 5y ago
      As I said, first the imperialism would stop. No more military threats, no more WTO enforcing unfair rules, forgiving all IMF loans, etc. That would allow trade to no longer be based such an extreme difference in the price of labour, so the victim countries could retain a majority of the value of their labour. By no longer losing value to profits at every step of production and distribution, consumer prices wouldn’t have to increase and could even be lowered in most cases. Merely dismantling the US army would vastly reduce global carbon emissions. Building high density housing, public transportation, universal healthcare, public utilities, etc. would further reduce the US’s majority contributions. Countries that were kept poor for centuries could be gifted low-carbon energy sources as part of reparations, so as to not need to emit carbon to develop. A lot can be done once the oppressor countries stop constantly extracting value for a few individuals.
      - 5y ago

IdiocyInAction 5y ago

Exploitation that ultimately helped lift a billion people out of poverty in China. A socialist US would probably, like most prior countries that called themselves socialist, be a poor, oppressive hellhole.

lucian1900 5y ago
Poverty has decreased in China in spite of US imperialism, not because of it. Most notably, poor capitalist countries have had poverty increase in the past several decades instead. All countries that have had a successful socialist revolution so far were oppressed impoverished ones. They all then went on to develop very quickly, in spite of constant attack from the imperialist countries. An already-developed former imperialist country would face no such challenges.
- parineum 5y ago
  China lifted itself out of poverty when it became a capitalist, dictatorial oligarchy.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    No. It was only allowed to develop after making deep concessions to imperialism, including special economic areas where capitalism is allowed. Thankfully the working class is still in control of the state, as we’ve seen the limits on capitalism tightened recently, especially during covid.
    - parineum 5y ago
      You think the working class is in control of China? The working class that has nets installed in their job provided dormatories because too many of them are commiting suicide? Those people are nearly slaves.
      - lucian1900 5y ago
        A certain level of exploitation is demanded by imperialists in exchange for capital investment and allowing trade. The working class of any victim nation is forced to accept deregulation like this if they wish a change at developing. Vietnam made a similar choice in a similar position. In both countries working conditions and labour laws have been steadily improving. This change is only possible if the workers as a class are in control of the state.

parineum 5y ago

US trade with China is currently mutually beneficial. That's why China participates. Give me more detail on what that means. If the US Communist party took over absolute leadership of the US tomorrow, what differences would there be in the US China trade agreement.

lucian1900 5y ago
The amount of benefit is not equal. Imperialist countries (US, western EU, etc.) have extremely favourable terms obtained under military threat. Often onerous terms are imposed, like privatisations or deregulation. One recent example is Bolivia’s rare earth mining. A German company was offering only ~5% of the value of extracted material in exchange for the capital required, while a Chinese SOE offered 50%. Not long after there was a US-backed fascist coup which was only recently defeated.
- parineum 5y ago
  Still no specifics.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    As I said, first the imperialism would stop. No more military threats, no more WTO enforcing unfair rules, forgiving all IMF loans, etc. That would allow trade to no longer be based such an extreme difference in the price of labour, so the victim countries could retain a majority of the value of their labour. By no longer losing value to profits at every step of production and distribution, consumer prices wouldn’t have to increase and could even be lowered in most cases. Merely dismantling the US army would vastly reduce global carbon emissions. Building high density housing, public transportation, universal healthcare, public utilities, etc. would further reduce the US’s majority contributions. Countries that were kept poor for centuries could be gifted low-carbon energy sources as part of reparations, so as to not need to emit carbon to develop. A lot can be done once the oppressor countries stop constantly extracting value for a few individuals.
    - 5y ago