3 ms·

The trans person is "dictating other people’s words" in one, very limited context: when referring directly to that person. Given that the only obvious reason t

The trans person is "dictating other people’s words" in one, very limited context: when referring directly to that person. Given that the only obvious reason to actively refuse to use their preferred pronouns amounts to a pretty deep attack on the legitimacy of their identity, you can see why it would not feel like a trivial thing. You might be similarly intent on insisting that people call you <actual name> rather than <offensive nickname>; that's just as real an example of "dictating other people's words".

dragonwriter 5y ago
> The trans person is “dictating other people’s words” in one, very limited context: when referring directly to that person. Which, to be fair, everyone with names and/or pronoun preferences (including a preference for the pronoun that is associated with the gender one is assigned based on the appearance of one’s genitalia at birth) tends to do, its just that when either the name or pronoun preference conflicts with someone else’s ideological view of the world, then the person who is trying to impose their ideology over other’s identity projects the other person’s identity as a “political position” and an imposition on liberty.
- retsibsi 5y ago
  Yeah, I realised shortly after posting that comment that there's no need to reach for a metaphor or analogy; almost everyone insists on having a certain set of pronouns applied to them. Usually there's no friction because people instinctively use the ones we prefer, but that doesn't mean we're not ready to make the demand if necessary. (Try calling a random male colleague 'she' -- or a random female colleague 'he' -- for a week or two, and see how it goes down.)
mixmastamyk 5y ago
Many people call me by a common nickname, I personally never cared one way or another. Also I've found other folks who were really annoyed by it kinda boring, so there is precedent. (Guy who would insist on being called David if someone happened to say Dave.). In general I find it more productive to focus on myself than demand others conform.
- retsibsi 5y ago
  > Many people call me by a common nickname, I personally never cared one way or another. This misses the point. If you would be bothered by an actually offensive nickname, surely you can empathise with trans people who feel the same way about pronouns. If you are truly unoffendable, great, but you must realise that you're unusual in that respect, and that trans people are far from the only ones 'dictating' how others refer to them. In any case, this comment is more to the point (you may have already seen and downvoted it, I'm not sure): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27002002 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27002002

dragonwriter 5y ago

> The trans person is “dictating other people’s words” in one, very limited context: when referring directly to that person. Which, to be fair, everyone with names and/or pronoun preferences (including a preference for the pronoun that is associated with the gender one is assigned based on the appearance of one’s genitalia at birth) tends to do, its just that when either the name or pronoun preference conflicts with someone else’s ideological view of the world, then the person who is trying to impose their ideology over other’s identity projects the other person’s identity as a “political position” and an imposition on liberty.

retsibsi 5y ago
Yeah, I realised shortly after posting that comment that there's no need to reach for a metaphor or analogy; almost everyone insists on having a certain set of pronouns applied to them. Usually there's no friction because people instinctively use the ones we prefer, but that doesn't mean we're not ready to make the demand if necessary. (Try calling a random male colleague 'she' -- or a random female colleague 'he' -- for a week or two, and see how it goes down.)

mixmastamyk 5y ago

Many people call me by a common nickname, I personally never cared one way or another. Also I've found other folks who were really annoyed by it kinda boring, so there is precedent. (Guy who would insist on being called David if someone happened to say Dave.). In general I find it more productive to focus on myself than demand others conform.

retsibsi 5y ago
> Many people call me by a common nickname, I personally never cared one way or another. This misses the point. If you would be bothered by an actually offensive nickname, surely you can empathise with trans people who feel the same way about pronouns. If you are truly unoffendable, great, but you must realise that you're unusual in that respect, and that trans people are far from the only ones 'dictating' how others refer to them. In any case, this comment is more to the point (you may have already seen and downvoted it, I'm not sure): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27002002 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27002002