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I am moving into San Francisco from Europe, and exactly in this situation of city versus further out. By Americans SF is probably considered a car-free, and pu

by wybo 15y ago

I am moving into San Francisco from Europe, and exactly in this situation of city versus further out. By Americans SF is probably considered a car-free, and public transportation friendly city, but as an European I am shocked to see that almost every street more resembles a free-way than a living-space, and not just in SOMA. China-town so far is the only bit that reminds me of an European city in terms of it's street-life. And I went looking for apartments/rooms to the north of Market street today, and was shocked to see that what could have been an exciting urban neighbourhood (and the only one built to human dimensions, within walking distance from the financial district), is a shady place, the Tenderloin. It seems a critical mass issue as well, to some extent. In Europe the exciting young people live in the center, in human-sized communities, while in the US even for Europeans that want to be in the city, the city is made unattractive by crime, drugs, and trash in the street. I guess I will be settling for something a bit further out, the Haight neighbourhood, or something north of Chinatown (people there don't seem to put their rentals/rooms on Craigslist), and a daily commute on the bus. Still pretty central probably on US-terms, but almost a flight to the suburbs in European terms... (am still looking, if anyone has anything, mail at wybowiersma dot net)

wybo 15y ago
Some images of the way cities should be built (and can be, as these are from real Dutch cities): http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//024.JPG http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//... http://cache.virtualtourist.com/789252-AMSTERDAM_ZUIDERKERK_GROENBURGWAL-Amsterdam.jpg http://cache.virtualtourist.com/789252-AMSTERDAM_ZUIDERKERK_... http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiabuurt%20groningen.JPG http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiab... http://v6.cache4.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/22590551.jpg?redirect_counter=1 http://v6.cache4.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.... Core ideas: - More room for green, less room for driving, still some parking-space (it is the fast driving, not the sitting cars that kill city life) - Very slow driving (15 miles an hour max) within residential blocks (a single narrow lane + speed-bumps and obstacles/hedges can enforce this) - No cars at all in certain streets, playgrounds instead, keeps young families in the city - Finally, build more densely, so shops / public transportation becomes economically viable. How hard can this be? (/me wonders what stops architects from simply copying historic styles and neighbourhood-layouts)
- bricestacey 15y ago
  We have some places like this in the US. Both http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//024.JPG http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//... and http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiabuurt%20groningen.JPG http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiab... look exactly like the projects. I used to walk through them daily and imagined how nice the place could have been. Instead, they were barren, unkept, and used for loitering.
- rayiner 15y ago
  Now scale this idea to American metropolitan areas. 27 US metro areas are bigger than the Amsterdam metro area, and about a dozen are at least twice as big. Having been to Amsterdam, I can say that while it's denser then most American cities, it's not that dramatically different then say DC.
  - jarek 15y ago
    London?
- 0xB33F 15y ago
  Looks exactly like the Soviet era planned cities to me. Huge project complexes everywhere. All of this sounds like communism wrapped up in some hippie "green" facade. Granted, something needs to be done, but this is NOT the answer.
  - angdis 15y ago
    Those photos are a mix of dutch housing in Amsterdam, including an old canal street. It is about as far as you can get from "Soviet era planned city." People definitely live in smaller spaces in the Netherlands (and Europe in general), but the quality and amenities of the public spaces is so outstanding, that it more than makes up for lack of square footage in one's house.

by wybo 15y ago

wybo 15y ago

Some images of the way cities should be built (and can be, as these are from real Dutch cities): http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//024.JPG http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//... http://cache.virtualtourist.com/789252-AMSTERDAM_ZUIDERKERK_GROENBURGWAL-Amsterdam.jpg http://cache.virtualtourist.com/789252-AMSTERDAM_ZUIDERKERK_... http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiabuurt%20groningen.JPG http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiab... http://v6.cache4.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/22590551.jpg?redirect_counter=1 http://v6.cache4.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.... Core ideas: - More room for green, less room for driving, still some parking-space (it is the fast driving, not the sitting cars that kill city life) - Very slow driving (15 miles an hour max) within residential blocks (a single narrow lane + speed-bumps and obstacles/hedges can enforce this) - No cars at all in certain streets, playgrounds instead, keeps young families in the city - Finally, build more densely, so shops / public transportation becomes economically viable. How hard can this be? (/me wonders what stops architects from simply copying historic styles and neighbourhood-layouts)

bricestacey 15y ago
We have some places like this in the US. Both http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//024.JPG http://www.aankoopmakelaargroningen.com/images/websites/56//... and http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiabuurt%20groningen.JPG http://home.kpn.nl/hemmoheidekamp/32/ooftstraat%20concordiab... look exactly like the projects. I used to walk through them daily and imagined how nice the place could have been. Instead, they were barren, unkept, and used for loitering.
rayiner 15y ago
Now scale this idea to American metropolitan areas. 27 US metro areas are bigger than the Amsterdam metro area, and about a dozen are at least twice as big. Having been to Amsterdam, I can say that while it's denser then most American cities, it's not that dramatically different then say DC.
- jarek 15y ago
  London?
0xB33F 15y ago
Looks exactly like the Soviet era planned cities to me. Huge project complexes everywhere. All of this sounds like communism wrapped up in some hippie "green" facade. Granted, something needs to be done, but this is NOT the answer.
- angdis 15y ago
  Those photos are a mix of dutch housing in Amsterdam, including an old canal street. It is about as far as you can get from "Soviet era planned city." People definitely live in smaller spaces in the Netherlands (and Europe in general), but the quality and amenities of the public spaces is so outstanding, that it more than makes up for lack of square footage in one's house.