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People are gonna wanna make this about politics, but my sense is that it's really just about the owners of basecamp are crappy tyrants to work for, that's about

People are gonna wanna make this about politics, but my sense is that it's really just about the owners of basecamp are crappy tyrants to work for, that's about it. I don't think it's really even about the specific policy. Note that the "changes" [1] also include "no more committees" (ie, no more feedback/authority/responsibilty except through the line-of-report hieararchy), "no bringing up past decisions you disagree with", and "no more 360 degree reviews" (no formal way to give feedback to your boss). I think they are basically changes to focus on... "insubordination". Do what we say, do your job as we say it, don't have an opinion. I think people are leaving because they don't trust or respect or feel respected by the boss, not over a single particular policy -- although in part over how little he cared what his employees opinions were about the policy. [1] https://world.hey.com/jason/changes-at-basecamp-7f32afc5 https://world.hey.com/jason/changes-at-basecamp-7f32afc5

madeofpalk 6y ago
> it's really just about the owners of basecamp are crappy tyrants to work for, that's about it. Sounds pretty political to me! Of course it's not just about the specifics of the policy. It's about the list and the leaders discussed and handled it. Rather than just taking the L they kept Posting Through It and alienated their employees.
anon7725 6y ago
> no more committees 1/3 of the company had joined this D&I committee, which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did. The employees proved that they couldn’t be trusted to self-organize into a committee and keep it on topic.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  > which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did Eh? Source? Elaborate.
  - anon7725 6y ago
    “Nonetheless, the DE&I council attracted significant support. More than a third of the company — 20 out of roughly 58 employees — volunteered to help. They began examining Basecamp’s hiring processes, which vendors the company works with, how Basecamp employees socialize, and what speakers they might invite to one of the all-remote company’s twice-yearly in-person gatherings.” https://www.platformer.news/p/-what-really-happened-at-basecamp https://www.platformer.news/p/-what-really-happened-at-basec...
    - greedo 6y ago
      Wow. I would have thought that a DE&I committee would just make sure the company party had enough drinks and snacks. Of course a DE&I committee would look at how the company operates. That's its entire purpose...
- 8note 6y ago
  You could also see the company as being wildly off track? 1/3 is a lot of people
  - kristofferR 6y ago
    And which employer/CEO would support efforts to impose hiring quotas, vendor/speaker blacklists and other limitations of their leadership of their own company? Lack of diversity is certainly a big problem in society at large, but do "minorities" really have problems getting hired in the hot developer job market? Seems to be more of a supply issue than a demand issue perhaps.
- bastawhiz 6y ago
  At no point did I read that any committee was involved with this issue: it was all direct interactions between individuals and management. Can you cite where you read that the DE&I committee had involved themselves with this?
gnzoidberg 6y ago
Eh. How many of those left because of a huge buyout on a job seekers' market, and on top of that they get to posture and virtue signal? Nothing to see here. Good on DHH.
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
I find this to be a very odd take. I believe no committees is because Jason and DHH don't think they're productive. Not bringing up past decisions you disagree with makes sense to me. What's the point in re-judging the past? The reason DHH mentioned for 360 reviews was that they didn't contain any real criticism because you're critiquing your co-workers (I'm paraphrasing), and that makes perfect sense to me. I wouldn't want to criticize my co-workers unless I had a very strong relationship with them. None of these changes feel like DHH and Jason being tyrants and stamping out employee insubordination.
- solipsism 6y ago
  The reason DHH mentioned for 360 reviews was that they didn't contain any real criticism because you're critiquing your co-workers (I'm paraphrasing This part stood out for me. This is a very simplistic view, and I would expect more from company leaders. Of course peer feedback is colored. But that doesn't mean it's without signal. A statement like "Sandra is great, her work is consistently on time" can be ignored. It's essentially no data. But a statement like "I couldn't have completed feature X without Susan. She did X, Y, and Z, and these things weren't even part of her job. Everyone needs to be more like Susan." Well... that statement tells you something. And you now have a basis of comparison between Susan's work and Sandras. Give Susan a bonus and Sandra a thumbs up.

madeofpalk 6y ago

> it's really just about the owners of basecamp are crappy tyrants to work for, that's about it. Sounds pretty political to me! Of course it's not just about the specifics of the policy. It's about the list and the leaders discussed and handled it. Rather than just taking the L they kept Posting Through It and alienated their employees.

anon7725 6y ago

> no more committees 1/3 of the company had joined this D&I committee, which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did. The employees proved that they couldn’t be trusted to self-organize into a committee and keep it on topic.

madeofpalk 6y ago
> which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did Eh? Source? Elaborate.
- anon7725 6y ago
  “Nonetheless, the DE&I council attracted significant support. More than a third of the company — 20 out of roughly 58 employees — volunteered to help. They began examining Basecamp’s hiring processes, which vendors the company works with, how Basecamp employees socialize, and what speakers they might invite to one of the all-remote company’s twice-yearly in-person gatherings.” https://www.platformer.news/p/-what-really-happened-at-basecamp https://www.platformer.news/p/-what-really-happened-at-basec...
  - greedo 6y ago
    Wow. I would have thought that a DE&I committee would just make sure the company party had enough drinks and snacks. Of course a DE&I committee would look at how the company operates. That's its entire purpose...
8note 6y ago
You could also see the company as being wildly off track? 1/3 is a lot of people
- kristofferR 6y ago
  And which employer/CEO would support efforts to impose hiring quotas, vendor/speaker blacklists and other limitations of their leadership of their own company? Lack of diversity is certainly a big problem in society at large, but do "minorities" really have problems getting hired in the hot developer job market? Seems to be more of a supply issue than a demand issue perhaps.
bastawhiz 6y ago
At no point did I read that any committee was involved with this issue: it was all direct interactions between individuals and management. Can you cite where you read that the DE&I committee had involved themselves with this?

gnzoidberg 6y ago

Eh. How many of those left because of a huge buyout on a job seekers' market, and on top of that they get to posture and virtue signal? Nothing to see here. Good on DHH.

ZephyrBlu 6y ago

I find this to be a very odd take. I believe no committees is because Jason and DHH don't think they're productive. Not bringing up past decisions you disagree with makes sense to me. What's the point in re-judging the past? The reason DHH mentioned for 360 reviews was that they didn't contain any real criticism because you're critiquing your co-workers (I'm paraphrasing), and that makes perfect sense to me. I wouldn't want to criticize my co-workers unless I had a very strong relationship with them. None of these changes feel like DHH and Jason being tyrants and stamping out employee insubordination.

solipsism 6y ago
The reason DHH mentioned for 360 reviews was that they didn't contain any real criticism because you're critiquing your co-workers (I'm paraphrasing This part stood out for me. This is a very simplistic view, and I would expect more from company leaders. Of course peer feedback is colored. But that doesn't mean it's without signal. A statement like "Sandra is great, her work is consistently on time" can be ignored. It's essentially no data. But a statement like "I couldn't have completed feature X without Susan. She did X, Y, and Z, and these things weren't even part of her job. Everyone needs to be more like Susan." Well... that statement tells you something. And you now have a basis of comparison between Susan's work and Sandras. Give Susan a bonus and Sandra a thumbs up.