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It genuinely isn't difficult in practice. Be polite and professional to your co-workers. That's it. If someone is gay, straight, whatever, it doesn't have an

It genuinely isn't difficult in practice. Be polite and professional to your co-workers. That's it. If someone is gay, straight, whatever, it doesn't have any bearing on their work, so it's not something that's discussed. I have literally zero desire to hear about anybody's sexual relationships at work. If someone thinks that the mere presence of a gay person is an agenda, then they fail rule 1, which is be polite and professional to your co-workers, and it's on them to either get a grip or leave.

tashoecraft 6y ago
Work is not someplace you go and leave all your personality at the door. We’re humans, we share about our lives. You act like describing someone’s “sexual relationship” is x rated, but merely stating “my wife/husband” reveals their sexual relationship and 100% will come up in work.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  Unless their statement is "My wife/husband worked on a problem very similar to the one we're trying to solve here, let's give her/his solution a shot!" it's not a conversation I want to have at work, while trying to solve work problems.
  - retsibsi 6y ago
    Which is fine, but small/personal talk is extremely common at work, and many people would find a workplace completely devoid of it to be rather cold. I don't think most people saying 'no politics' want to take that as far as banning all talk of anything not directly related to the task at hand.
    - Baeocystin 6y ago
      Small/personal talk is best done in small, personal social settings. If two co-workers who know each other well are enjoying a conversation between themselves, great! I mean that. I have friends at work, too. But personal talk absolutely does not belong in larger meetings or workplace discussions where you're trying solve work issues. It's a distraction at best, and unprofessional in general.
      - retsibsi 6y ago
        I guess I was thinking of something in between a private conversation and a meeting. Things like chatting in a shared office (which I know is a distracting no-no in some contexts, but not all, at least when it comes to a slightly extended greeting/farewell), or in the kitchen/corridor/doorway/photocopier room. Anywhere people naturally gather and mingle when they're not necessarily in full work mode. Depending on the workplace, that sort of thing is very common and a ban would seem weird and draconian.
        Baeocystin 6y ago
        It really is easy enough in practice. As tech folks, I know we as a group naturally hunt for edge cases, but I can say with complete confidence that everywhere that I've worked that put the kibosh on politics/personal during everyday business discussion was a much more humane place, for everyone, to work than one where such limitations weren't present.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        I disagree that those are edge cases, but I'm happy to accept that we've had different experiences.
  - gifnamething 6y ago
    How about 'I'm taking paternity leave'? That's them telling you something x-rated they did 9 months ago and it will definitely change how you solve problems.
    - Baeocystin 6y ago
      Discussion about the details of your paternity leave, how long you're planning to be away, and contingencies if you need more time: Yes, and congratulations! Discussion about the details of the sexual act that led you to needing to take paternity leave: No, don't care, not interested, not relevant.
      - retsibsi 6y ago
        If 'gender of partner' counts as 'details', that's a pretty extreme stance to take. (If not, the original point still stands.)
        Baeocystin 6y ago
        I mean this politely- please stop assigning the worst possible interpretation to what I'm saying. It goes against the spirit of discussion, and doesn't generate insight.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        I don't receive it very politely. It's clearly condescending, and from my perspective you are the one reading uncharitably. I explicitly didn't assume either interpretation of your statement; my point was that it was either extreme or, as far as I understood the thread of this discussion, irrelevant. (This subchain began with someone pointing out that one's sexual orientation will naturally be revealed in a work context.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- neolog 6y ago
  > We’re humans, we share about our lives. Some humans do, some don't. It makes sense for people who aren't interested to be able to avoid it and for people who are interested to be able to have it.
stormbrew 6y ago
> I have literally zero desire to hear about anybody's sexual relationships at work. So you shut it down when people talk about going on a date with their spouse or talk about their kids? Because literally, this is the bar a lot of homophobes exist at to consider a conversation about a gay relationship 'political' or even religious, and they will act on it.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  No, because I'm not the social police. But I don't want to hear about it while I'm working, and so I don't participate in those conversations. I'm trying to concentrate on work problems at work. End of.
- tomrod 6y ago
  > Because literally, this is the bar a lot of homophobes exist at to consider a conversation about a gay relationship 'political' or even religious, and they will act on it. So the homophobe is being political, and therefore breaks policy. Perhaps they would feel better if they let their misapprehensions and hate towards their colleagues go.
  - tayo42 6y ago
    It takes effort to get to the point where you can fire someone simply for being a homophobe. People are advocating for these types of rules. They're being told to just suck it up and don't be political.
    - drusepth 6y ago
      Wouldn't the ideal situation be firing someone for _acting_ as a homophobe (which a no-politics rule encourages), rather than _being_ a homophobe (or having any other undesirable trait)?
      - tayo42 6y ago
        I think you focusing on a word that's not that important. How do you define what's a fireable homophopic offense. You need to discuss it, you can't shut it down because its political and uncomfortable to discuss. You need to listen to the people that are being made uncomfortable and have these discussions. "stop being political" is making a decision, it's the side of no change.
pnutjam 6y ago
You're advocating for a middle ground that doesn't exist. As a racially ambiguous guy, most people are professional, but I pick up occasional comments and the way people act when you try to show them a better way or correct them really shines a light on this issue.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  The middle ground is that most people are, in fact, professional. It is literally impossible to actually like everyone you meet, but if you can at least maintain a professional relationship, that's fine- that's all that is required. This is what actual tolerance looks like in action!
  - sgift 6y ago
    > The middle ground is that most people are, in fact, professional. You say that is the case. People affected by it say it isn't (and have examples). Who to believe ...
    - Baeocystin 6y ago
      If you're looking to compared 'lived experience', I literally grew up a visible minority in SE Asia, and have been a foreigner compared to the dominant group at work for most of my adult life. Were there people that didn't like me because I wasn't like them? Sure. They weren't the majority, most people are just fine no matter where you go in the world, and I'm doing fine myself. Learning to come to grips that you aren't going to like everyone (and that it is mutual) is a large part of the lessons of becoming an adult. Learning to appreciate the fact that most people genuinely are able to treat you professionally at work regardless, no matter what the social media crowds say, is just as important.
- podric 6y ago
  It may not be true in your experience but it does exist. I've worked in several diverse offices in the US where it's exactly like that. Race/sexual orientation hardly ever comes up as a political topic and colleagues are generally friendly with one another (with a significant number of queer and POC colleagues)
williamtwild 6y ago
Exactly . I dont know how he could consider as he / she put it "gay persons very presence is political". Thats is a very sad position to have . Thier presence is just like any other persons presence. I could easily see where a person with that mindset would not last long at my company.
ErikVandeWater 6y ago
The vast majority of people don't have the self-control necessary to be polite and professional when confronted with political/religious disagreement. Better to let everyone enjoy false consensus bias than to take the risk.

tashoecraft 6y ago

Work is not someplace you go and leave all your personality at the door. We’re humans, we share about our lives. You act like describing someone’s “sexual relationship” is x rated, but merely stating “my wife/husband” reveals their sexual relationship and 100% will come up in work.

Baeocystin 6y ago
Unless their statement is "My wife/husband worked on a problem very similar to the one we're trying to solve here, let's give her/his solution a shot!" it's not a conversation I want to have at work, while trying to solve work problems.
- retsibsi 6y ago
  Which is fine, but small/personal talk is extremely common at work, and many people would find a workplace completely devoid of it to be rather cold. I don't think most people saying 'no politics' want to take that as far as banning all talk of anything not directly related to the task at hand.
  - Baeocystin 6y ago
    Small/personal talk is best done in small, personal social settings. If two co-workers who know each other well are enjoying a conversation between themselves, great! I mean that. I have friends at work, too. But personal talk absolutely does not belong in larger meetings or workplace discussions where you're trying solve work issues. It's a distraction at best, and unprofessional in general.
    - retsibsi 6y ago
      I guess I was thinking of something in between a private conversation and a meeting. Things like chatting in a shared office (which I know is a distracting no-no in some contexts, but not all, at least when it comes to a slightly extended greeting/farewell), or in the kitchen/corridor/doorway/photocopier room. Anywhere people naturally gather and mingle when they're not necessarily in full work mode. Depending on the workplace, that sort of thing is very common and a ban would seem weird and draconian.
      - Baeocystin 6y ago
        It really is easy enough in practice. As tech folks, I know we as a group naturally hunt for edge cases, but I can say with complete confidence that everywhere that I've worked that put the kibosh on politics/personal during everyday business discussion was a much more humane place, for everyone, to work than one where such limitations weren't present.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        I disagree that those are edge cases, but I'm happy to accept that we've had different experiences.
- gifnamething 6y ago
  How about 'I'm taking paternity leave'? That's them telling you something x-rated they did 9 months ago and it will definitely change how you solve problems.
  - Baeocystin 6y ago
    Discussion about the details of your paternity leave, how long you're planning to be away, and contingencies if you need more time: Yes, and congratulations! Discussion about the details of the sexual act that led you to needing to take paternity leave: No, don't care, not interested, not relevant.
    - retsibsi 6y ago
      If 'gender of partner' counts as 'details', that's a pretty extreme stance to take. (If not, the original point still stands.)
      - Baeocystin 6y ago
        I mean this politely- please stop assigning the worst possible interpretation to what I'm saying. It goes against the spirit of discussion, and doesn't generate insight.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        I don't receive it very politely. It's clearly condescending, and from my perspective you are the one reading uncharitably. I explicitly didn't assume either interpretation of your statement; my point was that it was either extreme or, as far as I understood the thread of this discussion, irrelevant. (This subchain began with someone pointing out that one's sexual orientation will naturally be revealed in a work context.)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
neolog 6y ago
> We’re humans, we share about our lives. Some humans do, some don't. It makes sense for people who aren't interested to be able to avoid it and for people who are interested to be able to have it.

stormbrew 6y ago

> I have literally zero desire to hear about anybody's sexual relationships at work. So you shut it down when people talk about going on a date with their spouse or talk about their kids? Because literally, this is the bar a lot of homophobes exist at to consider a conversation about a gay relationship 'political' or even religious, and they will act on it.

Baeocystin 6y ago
No, because I'm not the social police. But I don't want to hear about it while I'm working, and so I don't participate in those conversations. I'm trying to concentrate on work problems at work. End of.
tomrod 6y ago
> Because literally, this is the bar a lot of homophobes exist at to consider a conversation about a gay relationship 'political' or even religious, and they will act on it. So the homophobe is being political, and therefore breaks policy. Perhaps they would feel better if they let their misapprehensions and hate towards their colleagues go.
- tayo42 6y ago
  It takes effort to get to the point where you can fire someone simply for being a homophobe. People are advocating for these types of rules. They're being told to just suck it up and don't be political.
  - drusepth 6y ago
    Wouldn't the ideal situation be firing someone for _acting_ as a homophobe (which a no-politics rule encourages), rather than _being_ a homophobe (or having any other undesirable trait)?
    - tayo42 6y ago
      I think you focusing on a word that's not that important. How do you define what's a fireable homophopic offense. You need to discuss it, you can't shut it down because its political and uncomfortable to discuss. You need to listen to the people that are being made uncomfortable and have these discussions. "stop being political" is making a decision, it's the side of no change.

pnutjam 6y ago

You're advocating for a middle ground that doesn't exist. As a racially ambiguous guy, most people are professional, but I pick up occasional comments and the way people act when you try to show them a better way or correct them really shines a light on this issue.

Baeocystin 6y ago
The middle ground is that most people are, in fact, professional. It is literally impossible to actually like everyone you meet, but if you can at least maintain a professional relationship, that's fine- that's all that is required. This is what actual tolerance looks like in action!
- sgift 6y ago
  > The middle ground is that most people are, in fact, professional. You say that is the case. People affected by it say it isn't (and have examples). Who to believe ...
  - Baeocystin 6y ago
    If you're looking to compared 'lived experience', I literally grew up a visible minority in SE Asia, and have been a foreigner compared to the dominant group at work for most of my adult life. Were there people that didn't like me because I wasn't like them? Sure. They weren't the majority, most people are just fine no matter where you go in the world, and I'm doing fine myself. Learning to come to grips that you aren't going to like everyone (and that it is mutual) is a large part of the lessons of becoming an adult. Learning to appreciate the fact that most people genuinely are able to treat you professionally at work regardless, no matter what the social media crowds say, is just as important.
podric 6y ago
It may not be true in your experience but it does exist. I've worked in several diverse offices in the US where it's exactly like that. Race/sexual orientation hardly ever comes up as a political topic and colleagues are generally friendly with one another (with a significant number of queer and POC colleagues)

williamtwild 6y ago

Exactly . I dont know how he could consider as he / she put it "gay persons very presence is political". Thats is a very sad position to have . Thier presence is just like any other persons presence. I could easily see where a person with that mindset would not last long at my company.

ErikVandeWater 6y ago

The vast majority of people don't have the self-control necessary to be polite and professional when confronted with political/religious disagreement. Better to let everyone enjoy false consensus bias than to take the risk.