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I don't feel picked on. However, I do think that the way that downvoting works in online communities deserves some examination. And, given the basic structure o

I don't feel picked on. However, I do think that the way that downvoting works in online communities deserves some examination. And, given the basic structure of how HN works, community members don't really have a clear way to discuss it except by complaining about it in comments like these. Which isn't the best way. But still. "Freezing it out", as you say, has the effect of shutting that conversation down completely, which I think is potentially harmful to the long-term quality of the discourse, and in a way that is rather more insidious than the rather more banal quality problem that you're trying to guard against. In particular, the ever-present threat of getting voted down to -5 for presenting an idea that goes against the popular opinion presents a strong disincentive to share opinions, particularly for less thick-skinned individuals. And it creates a constant low-grade anxiety for some contributors. Pre-emptively complaining about the downvote is one symptom of this effect, but it's not the only one. Others, less visible, symptoms are that people just don't share their opinions at all, or don't share them as thoroughly or eloquently, when they're worried that doing so might result in the electronic equivalent of a smackdown. And the fact that this phenomenon affects certain people more than others does put a spin on the conversations that take place on Hacker News. Not necessarily one that has the effect of elevating the quality of discourse over the long run.

dang 6y ago
Well, that's a pretty decent reply. In any case, we can't freeze it out, so if you're right about how bad that would be, at least we're escaping that particular fate.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  I wasn't meaning to say that your efforts at freezing out conversation about the downvote are having that effect. I'm saying that's the effect of the (current) downvoting mechanic itself. What you're trying to freeze out is people expressing, however indirectly, a legitimate concern about the social environment being created by the current mechanics of the site. In other words, I think you're being a bit too quick to the trigger to dismiss these sorts of comments as just being boring conversation. My impression is that they're actually a rather banal tip to a much more consequential iceberg. You can't see the rest of it because it concerns things that are mostly happening out of view, out in meatspace, and typically only manifest themselves indirectly in what's happening on Hacker News. Especially if you're trying to "freeze out" the more direct manifestations.

dang 6y ago

Well, that's a pretty decent reply. In any case, we can't freeze it out, so if you're right about how bad that would be, at least we're escaping that particular fate.

mumblemumble 6y ago
I wasn't meaning to say that your efforts at freezing out conversation about the downvote are having that effect. I'm saying that's the effect of the (current) downvoting mechanic itself. What you're trying to freeze out is people expressing, however indirectly, a legitimate concern about the social environment being created by the current mechanics of the site. In other words, I think you're being a bit too quick to the trigger to dismiss these sorts of comments as just being boring conversation. My impression is that they're actually a rather banal tip to a much more consequential iceberg. You can't see the rest of it because it concerns things that are mostly happening out of view, out in meatspace, and typically only manifest themselves indirectly in what's happening on Hacker News. Especially if you're trying to "freeze out" the more direct manifestations.