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>and Google wants to subsume and replace the web with all things Google and Apple wants that web apps can't compete with native apps, like Apple will make sure

>and Google wants to subsume and replace the web with all things Google and Apple wants that web apps can't compete with native apps, like Apple will make sure a web based streaming app will not be usable. Why location API is not good in browser but microphone and camera is fine?

dmitriid 6y ago
> and Apple wants that I love how you keep bashing Apple even if Mozilla fully agrees with Apple on this. Because only Apple bad, bad, bad. > Why location API is not good in browser but microphone and camera is fine? Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. For things like Bluetooth, HID, Serial API etc. both WebKit and Firefox (not just Apple, but both Apple and Mozilla) say that this is not enough. Moreover, things like HID that Google happily shipped? Well, that specification is so bad that Mozilla devs didn't even understand it: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#issuecomment-753864467 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#is... Or look, Idle Detection API, currently in trial in Chrome. Firefox just openly says: "WebKit raised issues, we agree with them, here's the issues" https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/453 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/453 You will also find (if you only cared about this) that standards that Mozilla considers harmful (or at least thinks they have to be deferred) are mostly aligned with Apple's: https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/ https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/ But yeah. Only Apple bad.
- simion314 6y ago
  >Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. Of course I know, the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. If Apple devs would be competent they could implement it in a secure way like the camera API (or maybe the devs are competent and the reasons not to do it are financial) Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Anyway screw this, Microsoft was foprced to show a browser choice screen and Apple will be forced to show the same, it will take a few years but tit will happen. If you are not in EU you will not be affected at all. Since US will still use the inferior browser still all websites will have to code for it and native apps will have to be made to workaround the limitations.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    > the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. Ah, the tired old "your grandma" "argument". > Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Yes, I know. "Apple bad, Safari bad" and no amount of evidence that both Safari and Firefox resist multiple standards forced by Google will convince you otherwise. You're so blind to your own bias that you didn't even see that I never mentioned USB even once (even though it is one of "considered harmful by both Firefox and Safari").
    - simion314 6y ago
      Think of the grandma is the Apple fanboys defense of why shit should be locked and approved by Apple. You are mentioning location APIs and I shown you that is not different then camera APIs and then you still show me the bluttoh/usb stuff. https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about, I don't care is f Safari will never implement JavaScript at all, or if they decide grandma can't be trusted with camera permissions, as long you can install a better browser that gives you access to better APIs. I also mention for APIs that could let you make a competitive streaming app based in the browser, this is not about USB,bluetooth, VR or other APIs, so try fucking focusing on why you can't have a good music playuer in the browser? Is it impossible by the laws of nature to create such an API? or are the Apple devs incapable of implementing such an API in a safe way? or Apple users too stupid to give permissions , or maybe Apple wants money and a streaming service that is browser based means no tax ?
      - dmitriid 6y ago
        > You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about > so try fucking focusing Says the person who completely ignores everything I say, and only goes "Apple bad, Apple bad, Apple bad" > I don't care Indeed. --- I will not engage in this conversation further.

dmitriid 6y ago

> and Apple wants that I love how you keep bashing Apple even if Mozilla fully agrees with Apple on this. Because only Apple bad, bad, bad. > Why location API is not good in browser but microphone and camera is fine? Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. For things like Bluetooth, HID, Serial API etc. both WebKit and Firefox (not just Apple, but both Apple and Mozilla) say that this is not enough. Moreover, things like HID that Google happily shipped? Well, that specification is so bad that Mozilla devs didn't even understand it: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#issuecomment-753864467 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#is... Or look, Idle Detection API, currently in trial in Chrome. Firefox just openly says: "WebKit raised issues, we agree with them, here's the issues" https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/453 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/453 You will also find (if you only cared about this) that standards that Mozilla considers harmful (or at least thinks they have to be deferred) are mostly aligned with Apple's: https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/ https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/ But yeah. Only Apple bad.

simion314 6y ago
>Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. Of course I know, the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. If Apple devs would be competent they could implement it in a secure way like the camera API (or maybe the devs are competent and the reasons not to do it are financial) Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Anyway screw this, Microsoft was foprced to show a browser choice screen and Apple will be forced to show the same, it will take a few years but tit will happen. If you are not in EU you will not be affected at all. Since US will still use the inferior browser still all websites will have to code for it and native apps will have to be made to workaround the limitations.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. Ah, the tired old "your grandma" "argument". > Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Yes, I know. "Apple bad, Safari bad" and no amount of evidence that both Safari and Firefox resist multiple standards forced by Google will convince you otherwise. You're so blind to your own bias that you didn't even see that I never mentioned USB even once (even though it is one of "considered harmful by both Firefox and Safari").
  - simion314 6y ago
    Think of the grandma is the Apple fanboys defense of why shit should be locked and approved by Apple. You are mentioning location APIs and I shown you that is not different then camera APIs and then you still show me the bluttoh/usb stuff. https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about, I don't care is f Safari will never implement JavaScript at all, or if they decide grandma can't be trusted with camera permissions, as long you can install a better browser that gives you access to better APIs. I also mention for APIs that could let you make a competitive streaming app based in the browser, this is not about USB,bluetooth, VR or other APIs, so try fucking focusing on why you can't have a good music playuer in the browser? Is it impossible by the laws of nature to create such an API? or are the Apple devs incapable of implementing such an API in a safe way? or Apple users too stupid to give permissions , or maybe Apple wants money and a streaming service that is browser based means no tax ?
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      > You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about > so try fucking focusing Says the person who completely ignores everything I say, and only goes "Apple bad, Apple bad, Apple bad" > I don't care Indeed. --- I will not engage in this conversation further.