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If the app was there before, and they are saying the terms didn't change, they how could Roku want "lower requirements"? I don't think they can downgrade the ha

If the app was there before, and they are saying the terms didn't change, they how could Roku want "lower requirements"? I don't think they can downgrade the hardware in existing devices that are shipped. Maybe I'm misunderstand this, but this smells fishy.

barbazoo 5y ago
> Our initial conversations started with Roku simply to renew the current terms of their ongoing deal with YouTube TV > However, Roku chose to use this as an opportunity to renegotiate a separate deal encompassing the YouTube main app Those seem to be 2 different apps they're talking about
striking 5y ago
From the article: > Roku requested exceptions that would break the YouTube experience and limit our ability to update YouTube in order to fix issues or add new features. For example, by not supporting open-source video codecs, you wouldn’t be able to watch YouTube in 4K HDR or 8K even if you bought a Roku device that supports that resolution.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  Which is clearly bull crap. Youtube happily provides 4k video in H.* formats elsewhere. What Google says is: use our VP9 codec, or else.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    >Youtube happily provides 4k video in H.* formats elsewhere. Do they? Because if I put a 4K video through youtube-dl -F, I get this: 248 webm 1920x1080 1080p 1392k , webm_dash container, vp9@1392k, 24fps, video only, 193.77MiB 137 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 2650k , mp4_dash container, avc1.640028@2650k, 24fps, video only, 368.92MiB 271 webm 2560x1440 1440p 3453k , webm_dash container, vp9@3453k, 24fps, video only, 480.62MiB 313 webm 3840x2160 2160p 10434k , webm_dash container, vp9@10434k, 24fps, video only, 1.42GiB
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      Youtube will happily stream this in H.264 if WebM isn't available. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2853702?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2853702?hl=en > HTML5 streaming: Many browsers support HTML5 and either the H.264 video codec or WebM format. As others pointed out, this could be about AV1. Which still is bull crap because YouTube hapily delivers video in H.* or VP9 when needed. And it looks like the only reason Google stopped encoding in H.* to everyone's hand whether it's good or bad. This definitely has nothing to do with "opensource codecs".
      - celsoazevedo 5y ago
        YouTube doesn't create H.264 versions for 1440p or higher. If there's no VP9 support, the best resolution you'll get is 1080p. Some Apple devices are (or used to be?) affected by this. For example, on Mac, Firefox or Chrome have been able to play 8K YouTube videos for a long time while Safari couldn't go past 1080p. This was "fixed" a few months ago, but only because Apple added VP9 support. I don't think H.264 will disappear from YouTube anytime soon. They'll continue to use it as a fallback for devices that can't play VP9 or AV1 files. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if VP9 was dropped before H.264 when AV1 support (and YouTube's encoding capabilities) improve. At the end of the day, Google/YouTube doesn't have to use a paid and proprietary codec like H.265 and Roku doesn't have to support VP9 or AV1 with hardware (or software) decoding. But since H.264 support is still there, the hardware should be able to play 1080p YouTube videos without a problem.
  - smileybarry 5y ago
    Either way it's bull as Roku supports VP9 already[1], there isn't a codec barrier as far as I can tell. 1: https://developer.roku.com/en-gb/docs/specs/media/streaming-specifications.md https://developer.roku.com/en-gb/docs/specs/media/streaming-...
    - VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
      This may be about AV1 support. Not VP9
      - smileybarry 5y ago
        Yes but I responded because OP mentioned VP9.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        I clean forgot about AV1, since I don't follow the news in the space. However, consider: - H.264 has been around siince 2003 (so, 18 years). - VP9 was released in 2013 (so, 8 years). Google basically forced everyone to adopt the codec by refusing to encode 4k videos in anything else - AV1 was released in 2018. Only 3 years ago. Yay, a new shiny toy for Google. And Google now tries to force everyone to switch to it, or else? Google's own Android gained support for it only last year. So, when is Google going to drop VP9 for videos and only encode them in AV1? And should everyone drop it in another 5 years for an AV2?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - celsoazevedo 5y ago
    Google uses H.264, VP9 and now AV1 for videos up to 1080p. After that, it's only VP9 and AV1.

barbazoo 5y ago

> Our initial conversations started with Roku simply to renew the current terms of their ongoing deal with YouTube TV > However, Roku chose to use this as an opportunity to renegotiate a separate deal encompassing the YouTube main app Those seem to be 2 different apps they're talking about

striking 5y ago

From the article: > Roku requested exceptions that would break the YouTube experience and limit our ability to update YouTube in order to fix issues or add new features. For example, by not supporting open-source video codecs, you wouldn’t be able to watch YouTube in 4K HDR or 8K even if you bought a Roku device that supports that resolution.

dmitriid 5y ago
Which is clearly bull crap. Youtube happily provides 4k video in H.* formats elsewhere. What Google says is: use our VP9 codec, or else.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  >Youtube happily provides 4k video in H.* formats elsewhere. Do they? Because if I put a 4K video through youtube-dl -F, I get this: 248 webm 1920x1080 1080p 1392k , webm_dash container, vp9@1392k, 24fps, video only, 193.77MiB 137 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 2650k , mp4_dash container, avc1.640028@2650k, 24fps, video only, 368.92MiB 271 webm 2560x1440 1440p 3453k , webm_dash container, vp9@3453k, 24fps, video only, 480.62MiB 313 webm 3840x2160 2160p 10434k , webm_dash container, vp9@10434k, 24fps, video only, 1.42GiB
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    Youtube will happily stream this in H.264 if WebM isn't available. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2853702?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2853702?hl=en > HTML5 streaming: Many browsers support HTML5 and either the H.264 video codec or WebM format. As others pointed out, this could be about AV1. Which still is bull crap because YouTube hapily delivers video in H.* or VP9 when needed. And it looks like the only reason Google stopped encoding in H.* to everyone's hand whether it's good or bad. This definitely has nothing to do with "opensource codecs".
    - celsoazevedo 5y ago
      YouTube doesn't create H.264 versions for 1440p or higher. If there's no VP9 support, the best resolution you'll get is 1080p. Some Apple devices are (or used to be?) affected by this. For example, on Mac, Firefox or Chrome have been able to play 8K YouTube videos for a long time while Safari couldn't go past 1080p. This was "fixed" a few months ago, but only because Apple added VP9 support. I don't think H.264 will disappear from YouTube anytime soon. They'll continue to use it as a fallback for devices that can't play VP9 or AV1 files. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if VP9 was dropped before H.264 when AV1 support (and YouTube's encoding capabilities) improve. At the end of the day, Google/YouTube doesn't have to use a paid and proprietary codec like H.265 and Roku doesn't have to support VP9 or AV1 with hardware (or software) decoding. But since H.264 support is still there, the hardware should be able to play 1080p YouTube videos without a problem.
- smileybarry 5y ago
  Either way it's bull as Roku supports VP9 already[1], there isn't a codec barrier as far as I can tell. 1: https://developer.roku.com/en-gb/docs/specs/media/streaming-specifications.md https://developer.roku.com/en-gb/docs/specs/media/streaming-...
  - VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
    This may be about AV1 support. Not VP9
    - smileybarry 5y ago
      Yes but I responded because OP mentioned VP9.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        I clean forgot about AV1, since I don't follow the news in the space. However, consider: - H.264 has been around siince 2003 (so, 18 years). - VP9 was released in 2013 (so, 8 years). Google basically forced everyone to adopt the codec by refusing to encode 4k videos in anything else - AV1 was released in 2018. Only 3 years ago. Yay, a new shiny toy for Google. And Google now tries to force everyone to switch to it, or else? Google's own Android gained support for it only last year. So, when is Google going to drop VP9 for videos and only encode them in AV1? And should everyone drop it in another 5 years for an AV2?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- celsoazevedo 5y ago
  Google uses H.264, VP9 and now AV1 for videos up to 1080p. After that, it's only VP9 and AV1.