6 ms·

TSMC pays very well compared to other companies in the same market. I'm guessing you are hearing from people who've never worked for UMC or PowerChip! Of cours

TSMC pays very well compared to other companies in the same market. I'm guessing you are hearing from people who've never worked for UMC or PowerChip! Of course, the other fun fact: ANY TSMC employees who went to China will never get jobs in Hsinchu et al. ever again. One-way decision only. Burned bridge.

belval 6y ago
TSMC here is really a placeholder for Taiwanese companies.
varispeed 6y ago
> TSMC pays very well Many big companies indeed pay relatively well in comparison to other professions, but workers are heavily underpaid. You can't justify the fact that companies have multi-billion profits and they pay "market rate" salaries at the same time. This is exploitation of workers, but because the amount they are being paid seems to be big, nobody seems to be protesting. Most tech workers should be earning in seven digits.
- fossuser 6y ago
  I think it's more akin to sanctions on doing business in Iran. The CCP is a direct hostile threat to Taiwan, I can understand why they're doing this.
  - liuliu 6y ago
    Then just do a sanction on business with mainland like U.S. did with Iran. As it is, these are very targeted moves. Taiwan to decoupling from China would only be good for them.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    Wouldn't they do the same if it was France poaching them? The language and cultural barrier make it harder for European or American countries to recruit them, but I have no doubt they'd react similarly if they saw significant numbers leaving for Europe.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      They might and I'd argue that would be wrong. In the case of the CCP though, I understand it.
      - billyzs 6y ago
        why the double standard?
        fossuser 6y ago
        France isn’t planning to invade Taiwan.
- jsmcgd 6y ago
  > Most tech workers should be earning in seven digits According to which metric?
  - ev1 6y ago
    1 million Taiwan dollars is 30k USD
- refurb 6y ago
  Compensation isn’t dependent upon value added. That simply indicates a soft ceiling to compensation. It’s all about supply and demand. If there is a supply of skilled people will to work for $X, that’s the comp.
  - varispeed 6y ago
    I wonder how companies marketing their roles at "market rates" does not amount to wage-fixing? If every company agrees that work should cost them $x at most, then you don't really have supply and demand principle. I think this is only legal because because it is hard to prove within current legal framework. I think we should have a regulation that will make employers redistribute 30% of profits among workers as a bonus. That may of course lead to companies making artificial loses (as they do to avoid paying corporation tax) and ultimately a cat and mouse game.
    - refurb 6y ago
      Well, unless companies collude (tech is a good example a while back), they compete for labor so you’d assume they arrive at the market rate eventually. As you said, mandating they distribute profits will just result in gaming the system.
- cercatrova 6y ago
  The labor market, just like any market, prices goods according to supply and demand, not value.
newacct583 6y ago
UMC and PowerChip are not remotely "in the same market", unless you define market to mean "China". TSMC competes with Samsung and Intel. If they don't compensate their engineers accordingly they can expect to lose them.
shalmanese 6y ago
What? No they don't. TSMC starting wages [1] for a Masters degree candidate is $19,500 USD per year, for a bachelor's degree is $13,000 USD per year. Their median salary is less than $60K USD (which includes US engineers who are paid much more). They were finally shamed into a 20% above the board wage hike last November [2] but before then, they went a solid 10 years of 3 - 5% COL adjustments. They might pay well compared to other Taiwanese semi companies but that's only an indictment over how dismal the Taiwanese employment situation is. They're not lacking money, they're just cheap because the executive team culturally does not believe in rewarding talent. [1] https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3925769 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3925769 [2] https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4052667 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4052667

belval 6y ago

TSMC here is really a placeholder for Taiwanese companies.

varispeed 6y ago

> TSMC pays very well Many big companies indeed pay relatively well in comparison to other professions, but workers are heavily underpaid. You can't justify the fact that companies have multi-billion profits and they pay "market rate" salaries at the same time. This is exploitation of workers, but because the amount they are being paid seems to be big, nobody seems to be protesting. Most tech workers should be earning in seven digits.

fossuser 6y ago
I think it's more akin to sanctions on doing business in Iran. The CCP is a direct hostile threat to Taiwan, I can understand why they're doing this.
- liuliu 6y ago
  Then just do a sanction on business with mainland like U.S. did with Iran. As it is, these are very targeted moves. Taiwan to decoupling from China would only be good for them.
- luckylion 6y ago
  Wouldn't they do the same if it was France poaching them? The language and cultural barrier make it harder for European or American countries to recruit them, but I have no doubt they'd react similarly if they saw significant numbers leaving for Europe.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    They might and I'd argue that would be wrong. In the case of the CCP though, I understand it.
    - billyzs 6y ago
      why the double standard?
      - fossuser 6y ago
        France isn’t planning to invade Taiwan.
jsmcgd 6y ago
> Most tech workers should be earning in seven digits According to which metric?
- ev1 6y ago
  1 million Taiwan dollars is 30k USD
refurb 6y ago
Compensation isn’t dependent upon value added. That simply indicates a soft ceiling to compensation. It’s all about supply and demand. If there is a supply of skilled people will to work for $X, that’s the comp.
- varispeed 6y ago
  I wonder how companies marketing their roles at "market rates" does not amount to wage-fixing? If every company agrees that work should cost them $x at most, then you don't really have supply and demand principle. I think this is only legal because because it is hard to prove within current legal framework. I think we should have a regulation that will make employers redistribute 30% of profits among workers as a bonus. That may of course lead to companies making artificial loses (as they do to avoid paying corporation tax) and ultimately a cat and mouse game.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Well, unless companies collude (tech is a good example a while back), they compete for labor so you’d assume they arrive at the market rate eventually. As you said, mandating they distribute profits will just result in gaming the system.
cercatrova 6y ago
The labor market, just like any market, prices goods according to supply and demand, not value.

newacct583 6y ago

UMC and PowerChip are not remotely "in the same market", unless you define market to mean "China". TSMC competes with Samsung and Intel. If they don't compensate their engineers accordingly they can expect to lose them.

shalmanese 6y ago

What? No they don't. TSMC starting wages [1] for a Masters degree candidate is $19,500 USD per year, for a bachelor's degree is $13,000 USD per year. Their median salary is less than $60K USD (which includes US engineers who are paid much more). They were finally shamed into a 20% above the board wage hike last November [2] but before then, they went a solid 10 years of 3 - 5% COL adjustments. They might pay well compared to other Taiwanese semi companies but that's only an indictment over how dismal the Taiwanese employment situation is. They're not lacking money, they're just cheap because the executive team culturally does not believe in rewarding talent. [1] https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3925769 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3925769 [2] https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4052667 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4052667