7 ms·

Except they don’t become bricks. They still work just fine. In fact, on some more recent unsupported devices, you can still redownload apps (but only up to the

Except they don’t become bricks. They still work just fine. In fact, on some more recent unsupported devices, you can still redownload apps (but only up to the latest version supporting your device). Did the Apple II become a brick when Apple stopped supporting them? The IBM PC? Why is an older iDevice a “brick”, but not BlackBerrys or Nokias?

fsflover 6y ago
Security issues are found in browsers every day. You get no updates anymore and you are not allowed to update yourself. If you care about (not) leaking any of your data, this is effectively a brick.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zepto 6y ago
  > They effectively become bricks. In other words this was complete bullshit. It’s true that older devices are less capable than newer ones, and you might not want to browse on an old device. But they aren’t bricks.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > older devices are less capable than newer ones Understatement of the year concerning unsupported, insecure and (unreasonably) locked Apple devices.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Not really - I don’t expect a 7 year old device to be a good browser - that technology is a moving target, but I do expect it to still work as a notepad, music player, etc.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        My 11-year-old laptop works fine with latest Debian and Firefox.
        zepto 6y ago
        This is no different from 11 year old Apple laptops.
        fsflover 6y ago
        But it is different from GNU/Linux phones, which will be supported forever.
        zepto 6y ago
        1. So why did you mention laptops? Seems like a false comparison. 2. What 11 year old GNU/Linux phone is supported today let alone ‘forever’?
        fsflover 6y ago
        > 1. So why did you mention laptops? Seems like a false comparison. Linux laptops have a proven track record of being supported for >10 years. Since the GNU/Linux phones also run mainline Linux, they are effectively the same kind of devices. There is no reason to expect that GNU/Linux phones will stop being supported. > 2. What 11 year old GNU/Linux phone is supported today let alone ‘forever’? Nokia N900? See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#311-how-can-purism-provide-lifetime-software-updates-for-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        zepto 6y ago
        > 1. So why did you mention laptops? Seems like a false comparison. Linux laptops have a proven track record of being supported for >10 years. Since the GNU/Linux phones also run mainline Linux, they are effectively the same kind of devices. 1. No they aren’t. The hardware is different. Laptops are not the same as phones. It’s a false comparison. They may run the mainline kernel, but they certainly don’t run mainline distributions usefully. PinePhone isn’t even considered supported for consumer use today. It’s sold for developers and most users say it doesn’t even work as a daily driver 2. Is the Nokia 900 supported? It’s not obvious. What makes you think it is? Even you used a ‘?’. 3. Why is this relevant? Anyone who wants one can buy a PinePhone or Librem. Why would someone who wants a GNU/Linux phone buy an iPhone?
joshspankit 6y ago
Here’s another angle: An iPhone 4 with the “last supported OS” is significantly slower than when it had the OS it launched with. This is true across the board, which leads to this very convenient “they can buy used iPhones, but we don’t want them to use them, so we’ll gently guide them to new devices by making it inconvenient and annoying” And before someone argues: Yes, much of the slowdown is because of new features, BUT Apple could simply allow users to disable most of them (such as ML-processing photos in the background, or deep-indexing file contents for spotlight. Those are not required for the phone to function as a phone). If someone wanted to use the iPhone 3GS with the original iOS, not sync to the cloud, replace the battery every couple years, and install a firewall to prevent intrusion via known attack vectors, they could realistically have a perfectly snappy and solid experience in any future decade. Doubly so if they kept a 2.4Ghz AP when the industry is on some unknown future frequency. However: Apple has taken many steps to prevent exactly that sort of thing, and they will continue to make as many as they can get away with.
- zepto 6y ago
  > An iPhone 4 with the “last supported OS” is significantly slower than when it had the OS it launched with. This ignores the fact that later iPhones with the newest OS are significantly faster than what they launched with, which contradicts the conclusion that this is intentional.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    The lawsuit they lost suggests that the court found it was intentional.
    - zepto 6y ago
      The lawsuit might have suggested that but the court did not find any such thing.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        Sorry they actually settled for 113 million to terminate the lawsuit. I normally read settled for 9 figures as admitting wrongdoing.
andrepd 6y ago
Precisely, the iPhone does not work like an Apple ][ or an IBM PC. After "support" is ended you cannot install software on your device. How insane is it, I'll repeat: you cannot install software on “your own” device.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  I personally don’t care about installing my own stuff on my iPhone. I bought it knowing full well I couldn’t do it. But you’re right: when support ends, it is pretty crazy how the only way to install unapproved apps is through jailbreaks. If a manufacturer isn’t going to support a mass produced device anymore, they shouldn’t be able to just fold their arms and say, “we have a newer model!”
splix 6y ago
You can redownload supporting apps, but the problem is that the official App Store doesn't have them once a new version of OS comes out. I remember when in 2014 I decided to give away my unused iPad 1st gen, just as a e-reader. So I've erased it but no apps were supporting this device already. Even the official Apple Books app. Yes, techicaly it wasn't bricked, it worked, you still can turn it on and off. But without software it's useless.
- zepto 6y ago
  Ok - but that’s true of any old device that developers are no longer targeting. Classic Macs for example.
  - splix 6y ago
    I understand that a company cannot keep all old software downloadable forever, but note that in this case it was just a four years old device.
    - zepto 6y ago
      First gen is the operative word. That device is not representative. 4 years was an eternity in device capability at the time the first gen of the iPad was released. I’m writing this on a 6 year old iPad Pro that I use every day. Everything runs on it, and it shows no sign of being too slow or even needing a battery replacement. It seems like the problem has been solved.
      - splix 6y ago
        It wasn't a problem with the device. It was Apple decision that one day disallowed to download existing working software. They had the software, and I don't think it was too expensive to keep it downloadable for a few more years. Or you mean that there was a problem with Apple servers and now it's fixed?
        zepto 6y ago

fsflover 6y ago

Security issues are found in browsers every day. You get no updates anymore and you are not allowed to update yourself. If you care about (not) leaking any of your data, this is effectively a brick.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zepto 6y ago
> They effectively become bricks. In other words this was complete bullshit. It’s true that older devices are less capable than newer ones, and you might not want to browse on an old device. But they aren’t bricks.
- fsflover 6y ago
  > older devices are less capable than newer ones Understatement of the year concerning unsupported, insecure and (unreasonably) locked Apple devices.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Not really - I don’t expect a 7 year old device to be a good browser - that technology is a moving target, but I do expect it to still work as a notepad, music player, etc.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      My 11-year-old laptop works fine with latest Debian and Firefox.
      - zepto 6y ago
        This is no different from 11 year old Apple laptops.
        fsflover 6y ago
        But it is different from GNU/Linux phones, which will be supported forever.
        zepto 6y ago
        1. So why did you mention laptops? Seems like a false comparison. 2. What 11 year old GNU/Linux phone is supported today let alone ‘forever’?
        fsflover 6y ago
        > 1. So why did you mention laptops? Seems like a false comparison. Linux laptops have a proven track record of being supported for >10 years. Since the GNU/Linux phones also run mainline Linux, they are effectively the same kind of devices. There is no reason to expect that GNU/Linux phones will stop being supported. > 2. What 11 year old GNU/Linux phone is supported today let alone ‘forever’? Nokia N900? See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#311-how-can-purism-provide-lifetime-software-updates-for-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        zepto 6y ago
        > 1. So why did you mention laptops? Seems like a false comparison. Linux laptops have a proven track record of being supported for >10 years. Since the GNU/Linux phones also run mainline Linux, they are effectively the same kind of devices. 1. No they aren’t. The hardware is different. Laptops are not the same as phones. It’s a false comparison. They may run the mainline kernel, but they certainly don’t run mainline distributions usefully. PinePhone isn’t even considered supported for consumer use today. It’s sold for developers and most users say it doesn’t even work as a daily driver 2. Is the Nokia 900 supported? It’s not obvious. What makes you think it is? Even you used a ‘?’. 3. Why is this relevant? Anyone who wants one can buy a PinePhone or Librem. Why would someone who wants a GNU/Linux phone buy an iPhone?

joshspankit 6y ago

Here’s another angle: An iPhone 4 with the “last supported OS” is significantly slower than when it had the OS it launched with. This is true across the board, which leads to this very convenient “they can buy used iPhones, but we don’t want them to use them, so we’ll gently guide them to new devices by making it inconvenient and annoying” And before someone argues: Yes, much of the slowdown is because of new features, BUT Apple could simply allow users to disable most of them (such as ML-processing photos in the background, or deep-indexing file contents for spotlight. Those are not required for the phone to function as a phone). If someone wanted to use the iPhone 3GS with the original iOS, not sync to the cloud, replace the battery every couple years, and install a firewall to prevent intrusion via known attack vectors, they could realistically have a perfectly snappy and solid experience in any future decade. Doubly so if they kept a 2.4Ghz AP when the industry is on some unknown future frequency. However: Apple has taken many steps to prevent exactly that sort of thing, and they will continue to make as many as they can get away with.

zepto 6y ago
> An iPhone 4 with the “last supported OS” is significantly slower than when it had the OS it launched with. This ignores the fact that later iPhones with the newest OS are significantly faster than what they launched with, which contradicts the conclusion that this is intentional.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  The lawsuit they lost suggests that the court found it was intentional.
  - zepto 6y ago
    The lawsuit might have suggested that but the court did not find any such thing.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      Sorry they actually settled for 113 million to terminate the lawsuit. I normally read settled for 9 figures as admitting wrongdoing.

andrepd 6y ago

Precisely, the iPhone does not work like an Apple ][ or an IBM PC. After "support" is ended you cannot install software on your device. How insane is it, I'll repeat: you cannot install software on “your own” device.

colejohnson66 6y ago
I personally don’t care about installing my own stuff on my iPhone. I bought it knowing full well I couldn’t do it. But you’re right: when support ends, it is pretty crazy how the only way to install unapproved apps is through jailbreaks. If a manufacturer isn’t going to support a mass produced device anymore, they shouldn’t be able to just fold their arms and say, “we have a newer model!”

splix 6y ago

You can redownload supporting apps, but the problem is that the official App Store doesn't have them once a new version of OS comes out. I remember when in 2014 I decided to give away my unused iPad 1st gen, just as a e-reader. So I've erased it but no apps were supporting this device already. Even the official Apple Books app. Yes, techicaly it wasn't bricked, it worked, you still can turn it on and off. But without software it's useless.

zepto 6y ago
Ok - but that’s true of any old device that developers are no longer targeting. Classic Macs for example.
- splix 6y ago
  I understand that a company cannot keep all old software downloadable forever, but note that in this case it was just a four years old device.
  - zepto 6y ago
    First gen is the operative word. That device is not representative. 4 years was an eternity in device capability at the time the first gen of the iPad was released. I’m writing this on a 6 year old iPad Pro that I use every day. Everything runs on it, and it shows no sign of being too slow or even needing a battery replacement. It seems like the problem has been solved.
    - splix 6y ago
      It wasn't a problem with the device. It was Apple decision that one day disallowed to download existing working software. They had the software, and I don't think it was too expensive to keep it downloadable for a few more years. Or you mean that there was a problem with Apple servers and now it's fixed?
      - zepto 6y ago