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Oh I absolutely agree. Like another commenter said below, another similar thing are payment processors fees, but it works because 1. you're free to use another

by nolok 6y ago

Oh I absolutely agree. Like another commenter said below, another similar thing are payment processors fees, but it works because 1. you're free to use another one, or checks, or cash, or bitcoin, or anything else, and 2. the EU has strongly regulated their fees and imposed massive limits on what they can charge in %.

Sebb767 6y ago
But are they similar? One could argue that Visa and PayPal have a monopoly on payments processed via the Visa network/PayPal credit. Consumers are free to choose another ecosystem, but if they don't, the business is forced to make business with them. Similarly, the consumer can choose to buy an Android (or have to phones/tablets), but if they choose Apple only, the business needs to work with Apple.
- trinix912 6y ago
  Yes, but if you have a VISA card you can still withdraw the money and pay in cash right? That's an alternative that doesn't involve switching over to another ecosystem. Also, the EU regulations cap the fees and set up identical rules for everyone (unlike Apple where its own services are left through without a second thought even though they don't necessarily operate to the code).
  - Sebb767 6y ago
    > Yes, but if you have a VISA card you can still withdraw the money and pay in cash right? That's an alternative that doesn't involve switching over to another ecosystem. Isn't VISA somewhat similar to an ecosystem? It's not perfect (you can not switch over all apps when switching from/to Android), but you still need to change something on your side. Yes, exchanging a plastic card is easier than switching a phone, but it's not fundamentally a different paradigm. > Also, the EU regulations cap the fees and set up identical rules for everyone I agree that this is a good idea, but it's not a fundamental problem with Apple's payment structure.
- ARandumGuy 6y ago
  They're not similar, because Visa isn't in the music streaming business. Apple is directly competing with Spotify with their Apple Music streaming service. Since Apple has complete control over the iPhone ecosystem, they can set the rules to harm other streaming service, or let their own service completely break the rules. These anti-competitive rules aren't just about Company A relying on Company B to do business. It's about Company B also directly competing with Company A.

by nolok 6y ago

Sebb767 6y ago

But are they similar? One could argue that Visa and PayPal have a monopoly on payments processed via the Visa network/PayPal credit. Consumers are free to choose another ecosystem, but if they don't, the business is forced to make business with them. Similarly, the consumer can choose to buy an Android (or have to phones/tablets), but if they choose Apple only, the business needs to work with Apple.

trinix912 6y ago
Yes, but if you have a VISA card you can still withdraw the money and pay in cash right? That's an alternative that doesn't involve switching over to another ecosystem. Also, the EU regulations cap the fees and set up identical rules for everyone (unlike Apple where its own services are left through without a second thought even though they don't necessarily operate to the code).
- Sebb767 6y ago
  > Yes, but if you have a VISA card you can still withdraw the money and pay in cash right? That's an alternative that doesn't involve switching over to another ecosystem. Isn't VISA somewhat similar to an ecosystem? It's not perfect (you can not switch over all apps when switching from/to Android), but you still need to change something on your side. Yes, exchanging a plastic card is easier than switching a phone, but it's not fundamentally a different paradigm. > Also, the EU regulations cap the fees and set up identical rules for everyone I agree that this is a good idea, but it's not a fundamental problem with Apple's payment structure.
ARandumGuy 6y ago
They're not similar, because Visa isn't in the music streaming business. Apple is directly competing with Spotify with their Apple Music streaming service. Since Apple has complete control over the iPhone ecosystem, they can set the rules to harm other streaming service, or let their own service completely break the rules. These anti-competitive rules aren't just about Company A relying on Company B to do business. It's about Company B also directly competing with Company A.