6 ms·

As the article mentions, the use of the new blue pigment was a critical part of the image's immediate success and ubiquity. Obviously the image needed to be gre

As the article mentions, the use of the new blue pigment was a critical part of the image's immediate success and ubiquity. Obviously the image needed to be great to maintain it's popularity, but many hugely popular historic art pieces have some "shiny new" element that gives them that initial boost.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
How does that explain it's enduring modern appeal?
- DylanDmitri 6y ago
  There's maybe ten woodblocks with the potential for enduring modern appeal. But only one had an initial popularity spike that let it break through and claim enough cultural real estate to become self sufficient.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    > There's maybe ten woodblocks with the potential for enduring modern appeal. Do you have links to any of them? Is love to see others that are considered great.
    - User23 6y ago
      I'm a big fan of both Dürer and Blake's woodcuts. Their appeal is certainly enduring, but I don't think any single work is as recognizable to the average person as the Great Wave.
      - lostlogin 6y ago
        I think I’d misinterpreted DylanDmitri’s comment as meaning there were 9 other Japanese woodcut masters.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  It's mysterious but familiar enough to be easy to read and has a strong narrative. It has also become iconic. So it's reproduced more often than other 浮世絵 prints, and the public is more aware of it than of other art in the tradition.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    It may also be worth observing that a lot of Japanese woodblock art is of very traditional subjects, e.g. somewhat stereotypical geisha scenes, upper-class women, etc. A lot of Hokusai's work branched out as did some mode modern woodblock artists. This is hardly unique to Japan. Look how many Madonna and Child or Crucifixion scenes there were in Renaissance paintings.
- dfxm12 6y ago
  The article talks about how it influenced many artists from later generations, especially with impressionists. Impressionism was popular enough that researchers understood this through line pretty well. This image continues to influence artists today. Check out the cover of this Debussy composition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_mer_(Debussy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_mer_(Debussy). There aren't such homages on this scale to others like Yoshitoshi or Sharaku. There were also a lot of prints of this thing, which means many museums can have a print and display it, so it reaches a larger audience that way, too. Visitors to LA, NY, Chicago, London, Brussels, and more have always been able to see a print. From there, the image of the Great Wave exists in merchandising, which the article also mentions. Uniqlo made a shirt with the image printed all over it.
pradn 6y ago
Ultramarine was a huge success in Renaissance art. The blue is still mesmerizing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine See Sassoferrato's Madonna: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sassoferrato_-_Jungfrun_i_b%C3%B6n.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sassoferrato_-_Jungf... Turner and Van Gogh used this special Indian Yellow, imported from India, and made from the urine of cows fed mango leaves. https://hinduaesthetic.medium.com/the-mystery-of-the-origin-of-indian-yellow-7a0d19bc8db5 https://hinduaesthetic.medium.com/the-mystery-of-the-origin-...
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Ultramarine wasn't just more expensive than gold, it was also ordered by area. A painter's commission would say "...And such an such an area of ultramarine", the better to show off the buyer's wealth and status.
- dominicjj 6y ago
  It's a pity lead is so poisonous over time because white pigment made from lead is just superior for oil painting. Skin tones in particular glow in a way that just doesn't happen with other kinds of white. I bought a small quantity once from a local madman who claimed he made it from lead weights and horse manure and it was stunning stuff. Not worth the exposure risk in my opinion but the quality of the pigment was undeniable.
  - User23 6y ago
    It can be safely used with proper precautions, but it's understandable why people shy away from it. Still, there is a huge difference between being "exposed" to lead paint from a piece of fine art vs living in a house whose entire inside is coated with the stuff and it's flaking off the walls.
tablespoon 6y ago
IIRC, the use of perspective to depict Mount Fuji as a small thing in the background was also an innovative thing in Japanese art at the time.
trhway 6y ago
i wonder if the "shiny new" element is the fractal structure of the wave - at least it is the major impressive element for me here. While depiction is abstract, it is really captures and references the extremely important and powerful aspect of reality - the fractal structure of turbulence which we see as natural without paying much attention to it, yet it is one of the main things which separates real world from any simplified/abstract models of it. Also for example the one of greatest work by Aivazovsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninth_Wave#/media/File:Hovhannes_Aivazovsky_-_The_Ninth_Wave_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninth_Wave#/media/File:Hov... Here the fractal structures at the tops of the waves are the major elements delivering the feeling of the raging water, the main point of the picture.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

How does that explain it's enduring modern appeal?

DylanDmitri 6y ago
There's maybe ten woodblocks with the potential for enduring modern appeal. But only one had an initial popularity spike that let it break through and claim enough cultural real estate to become self sufficient.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > There's maybe ten woodblocks with the potential for enduring modern appeal. Do you have links to any of them? Is love to see others that are considered great.
  - User23 6y ago
    I'm a big fan of both Dürer and Blake's woodcuts. Their appeal is certainly enduring, but I don't think any single work is as recognizable to the average person as the Great Wave.
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      I think I’d misinterpreted DylanDmitri’s comment as meaning there were 9 other Japanese woodcut masters.
TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
It's mysterious but familiar enough to be easy to read and has a strong narrative. It has also become iconic. So it's reproduced more often than other 浮世絵 prints, and the public is more aware of it than of other art in the tradition.
- ghaff 6y ago
  It may also be worth observing that a lot of Japanese woodblock art is of very traditional subjects, e.g. somewhat stereotypical geisha scenes, upper-class women, etc. A lot of Hokusai's work branched out as did some mode modern woodblock artists. This is hardly unique to Japan. Look how many Madonna and Child or Crucifixion scenes there were in Renaissance paintings.
dfxm12 6y ago
The article talks about how it influenced many artists from later generations, especially with impressionists. Impressionism was popular enough that researchers understood this through line pretty well. This image continues to influence artists today. Check out the cover of this Debussy composition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_mer_(Debussy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_mer_(Debussy). There aren't such homages on this scale to others like Yoshitoshi or Sharaku. There were also a lot of prints of this thing, which means many museums can have a print and display it, so it reaches a larger audience that way, too. Visitors to LA, NY, Chicago, London, Brussels, and more have always been able to see a print. From there, the image of the Great Wave exists in merchandising, which the article also mentions. Uniqlo made a shirt with the image printed all over it.

pradn 6y ago

Ultramarine was a huge success in Renaissance art. The blue is still mesmerizing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine See Sassoferrato's Madonna: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sassoferrato_-_Jungfrun_i_b%C3%B6n.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sassoferrato_-_Jungf... Turner and Van Gogh used this special Indian Yellow, imported from India, and made from the urine of cows fed mango leaves. https://hinduaesthetic.medium.com/the-mystery-of-the-origin-of-indian-yellow-7a0d19bc8db5 https://hinduaesthetic.medium.com/the-mystery-of-the-origin-...

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
Ultramarine wasn't just more expensive than gold, it was also ordered by area. A painter's commission would say "...And such an such an area of ultramarine", the better to show off the buyer's wealth and status.
dominicjj 6y ago
It's a pity lead is so poisonous over time because white pigment made from lead is just superior for oil painting. Skin tones in particular glow in a way that just doesn't happen with other kinds of white. I bought a small quantity once from a local madman who claimed he made it from lead weights and horse manure and it was stunning stuff. Not worth the exposure risk in my opinion but the quality of the pigment was undeniable.
- User23 6y ago
  It can be safely used with proper precautions, but it's understandable why people shy away from it. Still, there is a huge difference between being "exposed" to lead paint from a piece of fine art vs living in a house whose entire inside is coated with the stuff and it's flaking off the walls.

tablespoon 6y ago

IIRC, the use of perspective to depict Mount Fuji as a small thing in the background was also an innovative thing in Japanese art at the time.

trhway 6y ago

i wonder if the "shiny new" element is the fractal structure of the wave - at least it is the major impressive element for me here. While depiction is abstract, it is really captures and references the extremely important and powerful aspect of reality - the fractal structure of turbulence which we see as natural without paying much attention to it, yet it is one of the main things which separates real world from any simplified/abstract models of it. Also for example the one of greatest work by Aivazovsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninth_Wave#/media/File:Hovhannes_Aivazovsky_-_The_Ninth_Wave_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninth_Wave#/media/File:Hov... Here the fractal structures at the tops of the waves are the major elements delivering the feeling of the raging water, the main point of the picture.