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That fact is key to the advantage that the iPhone ecosystem offers. I, and millions of users like me, like the closed garden. I’m effectively outsourcing the d

That fact is key to the advantage that the iPhone ecosystem offers. I, and millions of users like me, like the closed garden. I’m effectively outsourcing the duties implied by caveat emptor to Apple. I don’t have the time/inclination to check the safety & honesty of each app developer.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
"millions of users like me, like the closed garden." Alcapone was popular, but he was still a criminal and a murderer
- FredPret 6y ago
  If you think about it really carefully, Apple vetting apps before I get to see them is not... exactly... the same thing as being a murdering gangster
  - fouric 6y ago
    It's pretty clear that the parent was not stating that those were the same thing, but instead that popularity does not mean correctness (either in the technical sense or the moral sense).
- rattlesnakedave 6y ago
  Peak hackernews comment. This is an inane comparison. Murder is not the same as me being satisfied that every app publisher under the sun cannot make their own app store to pollute my phone further.
fouric 6y ago
> That fact is key to the advantage that the iPhone ecosystem offers. That's not an advantage - that's a disadvantage. Having an open ecosystem is a strict superset of the functionality of a closed ecosystem. If I can sideload, then I can sideload and use Apple's app store. If I can't sideload, then I can only use Apple's app store. It's a strict downgrade. > I, and millions of users like me, like the closed garden. Meanwhile, I, and millions of users like me (more, if you count every Android user as not liking walled gardens), do not like the closed garden. Popularity does not make you right. Absolute popularity doesn't even matter - only relative popularity does. > I’m effectively outsourcing the duties implied by caveat emptor to Apple. I don’t have the time/inclination to check the safety & honesty of each app developer. Apple doesn't do those duties consistently - malware repeatedly appears on the app store, and Apple doesn't even attempt to make sure that the vast majority of apps adhere to their privacy labels.
- FredPret 6y ago
  > "[banning sideloading] is a strict downgrade" Nope, I can buy my mom an iPhone and know that it's not possible to totally brick it by clicking a link from a dodgy text/email > "Popularity does not make you right" I'm not saying that the closed approach is fundamentally better than the open approach, but it sure is for some use-cases. That's why we have a phone OS duopoly. Regarding Apple's garden walls not keeping all the creepy-crawlies out, sure, but it's vastly better than on Android.
  - daveidol 6y ago
    > I can buy my mom an iPhone and know that it's not possible to totally brick it by clicking a link from a dodgy text/email If they add sufficient warnings about sideloading etc. then I don't see a problem. If your mom is incapable of listening to these warnings and follows some guide to install some walware then I'm sorry but maybe she needs parental controls enabled or just a nice talking to about how to use her phone? Forcing everyone else to lose out on game streaming or Spotify signups seems like an overreaction to the problem and an oversimplification of the solution space.
    - FredPret 6y ago
      Jesus, calm down. No-one is forced to do anything. Buy an Android. My mom will use an iPhone. The device fits the person and their behaviour, not the other way around.
  - SiempreViernes 6y ago
    > Nope, I can buy my mom an iPhone and know that it's not possible to totally brick it by clicking a link from a dodgy text/email Uhm, I guess that's true in the same sense that it's usually more rainy in New York than Chicago: One click RCE aren't exactly impossible for IPhone, just historically more rare than on android. Though recently at least one exploit broker stopped accepting iOS Safari one click RCE because they just got too many shrug.
ThatPlayer 6y ago
And with alternative app stores you continue to have the choice of only using Apple's App Store, where Apple would hopefully continue to check each app.
noptd 6y ago
> I, and millions of users like me, like the closed garden. Citation needed.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

"millions of users like me, like the closed garden." Alcapone was popular, but he was still a criminal and a murderer

FredPret 6y ago
If you think about it really carefully, Apple vetting apps before I get to see them is not... exactly... the same thing as being a murdering gangster
- fouric 6y ago
  It's pretty clear that the parent was not stating that those were the same thing, but instead that popularity does not mean correctness (either in the technical sense or the moral sense).
rattlesnakedave 6y ago
Peak hackernews comment. This is an inane comparison. Murder is not the same as me being satisfied that every app publisher under the sun cannot make their own app store to pollute my phone further.

fouric 6y ago

> That fact is key to the advantage that the iPhone ecosystem offers. That's not an advantage - that's a disadvantage. Having an open ecosystem is a strict superset of the functionality of a closed ecosystem. If I can sideload, then I can sideload and use Apple's app store. If I can't sideload, then I can only use Apple's app store. It's a strict downgrade. > I, and millions of users like me, like the closed garden. Meanwhile, I, and millions of users like me (more, if you count every Android user as not liking walled gardens), do not like the closed garden. Popularity does not make you right. Absolute popularity doesn't even matter - only relative popularity does. > I’m effectively outsourcing the duties implied by caveat emptor to Apple. I don’t have the time/inclination to check the safety & honesty of each app developer. Apple doesn't do those duties consistently - malware repeatedly appears on the app store, and Apple doesn't even attempt to make sure that the vast majority of apps adhere to their privacy labels.

FredPret 6y ago
> "[banning sideloading] is a strict downgrade" Nope, I can buy my mom an iPhone and know that it's not possible to totally brick it by clicking a link from a dodgy text/email > "Popularity does not make you right" I'm not saying that the closed approach is fundamentally better than the open approach, but it sure is for some use-cases. That's why we have a phone OS duopoly. Regarding Apple's garden walls not keeping all the creepy-crawlies out, sure, but it's vastly better than on Android.
- daveidol 6y ago
  > I can buy my mom an iPhone and know that it's not possible to totally brick it by clicking a link from a dodgy text/email If they add sufficient warnings about sideloading etc. then I don't see a problem. If your mom is incapable of listening to these warnings and follows some guide to install some walware then I'm sorry but maybe she needs parental controls enabled or just a nice talking to about how to use her phone? Forcing everyone else to lose out on game streaming or Spotify signups seems like an overreaction to the problem and an oversimplification of the solution space.
  - FredPret 6y ago
    Jesus, calm down. No-one is forced to do anything. Buy an Android. My mom will use an iPhone. The device fits the person and their behaviour, not the other way around.
- SiempreViernes 6y ago
  > Nope, I can buy my mom an iPhone and know that it's not possible to totally brick it by clicking a link from a dodgy text/email Uhm, I guess that's true in the same sense that it's usually more rainy in New York than Chicago: One click RCE aren't exactly impossible for IPhone, just historically more rare than on android. Though recently at least one exploit broker stopped accepting iOS Safari one click RCE because they just got too many shrug.

ThatPlayer 6y ago

And with alternative app stores you continue to have the choice of only using Apple's App Store, where Apple would hopefully continue to check each app.

noptd 6y ago

> I, and millions of users like me, like the closed garden. Citation needed.