6 ms·

Do Google's demands have any merit or are they merely self-serving? The article makes mention of wanting Roku to upgrade hardware... but to support what: 8K vi

by mikece 6y ago

Do Google's demands have any merit or are they merely self-serving? The article makes mention of wanting Roku to upgrade hardware... but to support what: 8K video? Smoother 4K? I can see a point on both sides: Roku wants to keep their hardware affordable and YouTube doesn't want inexpensive hardware to negatively affect the experience of consuming higher (video) quality YouTube content. Without an knowing the details of the disagreement I have to conclude they are both in the wrong.

wlesieutre 6y ago
Probably AV1 codec support https://9to5google.com/2021/01/27/youtube-av1-netflix-requirement/ https://9to5google.com/2021/01/27/youtube-av1-netflix-requir...
tehbeard 6y ago
> YouTube doesn't want inexpensive hardware to negatively affect the experience of consuming higher (video) quality YouTube content. Someone should inform their apps team then, as that recent "quality menu" change has all my devices bumping down to 240/480... On a network and devices that up until that point had flawlessly delivered 720/1080 without a hitch.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  As the codebase gets bigger and more complex, performance on identical hardware will necessarily get worse. There is only a certain amount of RAM, and when it's all used up by thousands of coders writing new UI toolkits, there isn't enough RAM left and you're forced to have smaller video buffers and lower resolutions to prevent the app running out of RAM.
  - tehbeard 6y ago
    This is the most drek response I've ever seen. If I switch it back to 720/1080, There. Is. No. Issue. No app crashes, no stalling out buffering, it works fine, just like last month, just like last year, and the year before that. But now video starts in "potato quality" and nessecitates button mashing to get back to being watchable.
    - londons_explore 6y ago
      There are parts of this system you can't see... Imagine the connection from your ISP to youtube is 1 Gbit. Thats 200 HD AV1 streams, or 100 MP4 streams, or 1000 Low quality streams. If your device only supports MP4, then by you selecting HD, 5 other people have to watch in SD. Youtube autoselects the quality to maximize overall enjoyment, but lets individuals override it. But by overriding it, you probably hurt other viewers experience (they will get auto-defaulted to lower quality).
- Jabbles 6y ago
  Are you in Europe? https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21187930/youtube-reduces-streaming-quality-european-union-coronavirus-bandwidth-internet-traffic https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21187930/youtube-reduces-...
  - tehbeard 6y ago
    Yes but as that article points out, BT and other ISPs aren't anywhere near their network capacity. Honestly with how the UI of the menu is designed it reeks of one of the Googlers wanting to "be bold" to get a promotion/side transfer. changes for changes sake and nice padding on their CV.
- ErikVandeWater 6y ago
  This works if you use Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/auto-quality-for-youtube/iaddfgegjgjelgkanamleadckkpnjpjc?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/auto-quality-for-y...
londons_explore 6y ago
Youtube is demanding AV1 support, which will reduce bandwidth required to give you video. That in turn means that more people in your neighbourhood (or a shared cable link) can watch video at the same time without lowering quality or buffering.
mfer 6y ago
First, this is about more than codecs and quality. The article notes that Google wants data on users that other channels don't get. Hardware may be part of it, though. Codecs also affect bandwidth. Videos in newer codecs often have a smaller file size which is less bandwidth to stream and smaller files to keep on their edge nodes. At the scale of Google and Netflix this is substantial and plays into their costs. Google, via YouTube, has a history of only wanting to support the latest systems. I've had older devices where the YouTube app has gone away. This is a bit of forced obsolescence to push people to buy newer stuff. Not because they need it but for reasons outside the end users needs.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  But at the same time YouTube still had support for the 3gp format dating back to the pre-iPhone smartphones ?
- ThatPlayer 6y ago
  At the same time, that 'data on users' could be as simple as being able to manage their YouTube TV subscription. Roku right now forces you to go through Roku's payment to sign up for stuff IIRC. That's exactly what happened with Roku and HBO Max: https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-stops-selling-hbo-channel-store-hbo-max-1234866747/ https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-stops-selling-hbo...

by mikece 6y ago

wlesieutre 6y ago

Probably AV1 codec support https://9to5google.com/2021/01/27/youtube-av1-netflix-requirement/ https://9to5google.com/2021/01/27/youtube-av1-netflix-requir...

tehbeard 6y ago

> YouTube doesn't want inexpensive hardware to negatively affect the experience of consuming higher (video) quality YouTube content. Someone should inform their apps team then, as that recent "quality menu" change has all my devices bumping down to 240/480... On a network and devices that up until that point had flawlessly delivered 720/1080 without a hitch.

londons_explore 6y ago
As the codebase gets bigger and more complex, performance on identical hardware will necessarily get worse. There is only a certain amount of RAM, and when it's all used up by thousands of coders writing new UI toolkits, there isn't enough RAM left and you're forced to have smaller video buffers and lower resolutions to prevent the app running out of RAM.
- tehbeard 6y ago
  This is the most drek response I've ever seen. If I switch it back to 720/1080, There. Is. No. Issue. No app crashes, no stalling out buffering, it works fine, just like last month, just like last year, and the year before that. But now video starts in "potato quality" and nessecitates button mashing to get back to being watchable.
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    There are parts of this system you can't see... Imagine the connection from your ISP to youtube is 1 Gbit. Thats 200 HD AV1 streams, or 100 MP4 streams, or 1000 Low quality streams. If your device only supports MP4, then by you selecting HD, 5 other people have to watch in SD. Youtube autoselects the quality to maximize overall enjoyment, but lets individuals override it. But by overriding it, you probably hurt other viewers experience (they will get auto-defaulted to lower quality).
Jabbles 6y ago
Are you in Europe? https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21187930/youtube-reduces-streaming-quality-european-union-coronavirus-bandwidth-internet-traffic https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21187930/youtube-reduces-...
- tehbeard 6y ago
  Yes but as that article points out, BT and other ISPs aren't anywhere near their network capacity. Honestly with how the UI of the menu is designed it reeks of one of the Googlers wanting to "be bold" to get a promotion/side transfer. changes for changes sake and nice padding on their CV.
ErikVandeWater 6y ago
This works if you use Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/auto-quality-for-youtube/iaddfgegjgjelgkanamleadckkpnjpjc?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/auto-quality-for-y...

londons_explore 6y ago

Youtube is demanding AV1 support, which will reduce bandwidth required to give you video. That in turn means that more people in your neighbourhood (or a shared cable link) can watch video at the same time without lowering quality or buffering.

mfer 6y ago

First, this is about more than codecs and quality. The article notes that Google wants data on users that other channels don't get. Hardware may be part of it, though. Codecs also affect bandwidth. Videos in newer codecs often have a smaller file size which is less bandwidth to stream and smaller files to keep on their edge nodes. At the scale of Google and Netflix this is substantial and plays into their costs. Google, via YouTube, has a history of only wanting to support the latest systems. I've had older devices where the YouTube app has gone away. This is a bit of forced obsolescence to push people to buy newer stuff. Not because they need it but for reasons outside the end users needs.

BlueTemplar 6y ago
But at the same time YouTube still had support for the 3gp format dating back to the pre-iPhone smartphones ?
ThatPlayer 6y ago
At the same time, that 'data on users' could be as simple as being able to manage their YouTube TV subscription. Roku right now forces you to go through Roku's payment to sign up for stuff IIRC. That's exactly what happened with Roku and HBO Max: https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-stops-selling-hbo-channel-store-hbo-max-1234866747/ https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-stops-selling-hbo...