5 ms·

Web (Chrome) developers often go on and on about this, but I have yet to hear a single layman user complain about their iOS version of Chrome missing the abilit

Web (Chrome) developers often go on and on about this, but I have yet to hear a single layman user complain about their iOS version of Chrome missing the ability to have the random news websites they’ve followed from Facebook send them native notifications, take up the entire viewport, or be “installed” to their home screen.

agust 5y ago
Sure. Users don't even know it would be possible, and don't care about the tech anyway. What they care about however is how much they pay for apps, how much they pay for in-app purchases, and being able to switch freely from one platform to another. Well, Apple's behaviour is impacting all this by forcing companies to develop native apps instead of web apps. Web apps (could) work anywhere, and cost a fraction of the cost of native apps.
- finiteseries 5y ago
  This is clear, but only replaces the web developer’s perspective with the company’s, not the layman user’s. In-app purchases and App Store purchases in general are already scraping the bottom of the barrel, we’re talking about the difference between $9.99 & <$7 at the higher end assuming everything works out. That absolutely matters, but much more to the sellers than the users. We can imagine the thousands of needlessly native apps with a platform mandated 30% surcharge being transported onto the open web and into user devices free of interference. Hardware accelerated IG like filters writing to local disk in the background at 60fps, DRM protected 4k streaming with cheaper monthly subs, hobbyist forum sites on the home screen with PMs and replies pushing notifications alongside FB, the dream. But Abuelita is going to experience the millions of individual pages relying exclusively on advertising revenue already twisted and contorted into profitable positions being given the green light for Notifications, Geolocation, Bluetooth, NFC, Network Info, Ambient Light, Idleness, Proximity APIs etc while she’s just trying to read about how Joe Biden is destroying the fabric of America.
pornel 5y ago
To users it doesn't matter whether an app uses JS or Swift, only that it works smoothly and has all the features. It is in Apple's interest to keep web apps clunky, and forever less capable than their native platform. If "Add to Homescreen" wasn't added in the pre-AppStore era, I don't think it'd happen. This feature has clearly been mothballed. Homescreen web apps were given a second-rate build of WebKit that has been been consistently slower and buggier than standalone Safari (I don't know if they've fixed it recently. Homescreen webapps that I worked on all gave in to the AppStore eventually). Apple has the same fear as Microsoft had that powerful Web apps will make their native platform unnecessary. Microsoft made a mistake of abandoning Internet Explorer 6 entirely. Apple is smart enough to keep user-facing parts of their browser high quality, and only drag their feet on more advanced platform features. They forbid other browser engines, which magically makes Safari appear as technically capable as every other iOS browser.
Leherenn 5y ago
I do. We have a device that creates its own Wi-Fi and serves a web app to interact with it. We have a lot of clients that would like to be notified when a new firmware is released for the device. Another recent one, a customer on iOS 12 did not understand why he couldn't save a file generated on the device to his phone. I told him it's not possible, but he can save it to iCloud (without a correct name though). I got told off about how bad we must be not to support such a basic feature. Don't ask me mate.
kwyjobojoe 5y ago
I'd pay money to use real Firefox on my ipad and have access to a good ad blocker
Siira 5y ago
I have also never known a single layman who complained about memory leaks. People don't complain about stuff they don't understand, but that doesn't mean the problems are not affecting them. Another problem is that small problems affecting a large number of people do not have much vocal support, while their costs are still enormous. (As compared to problems that affect a minority a lot.)
jwitthuhn 5y ago
As a user I really value having a good ad blocker integrated with my mobile browser. Safari is okay at ad blocking but it can't do nearly as much as Firefox Mobile with uBlock, and Apple doesn't seem at all interested in improving it.
heavyset_go 5y ago
From my HN post[1] one month ago: > The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. > I recently worked on a health app related to the COVID pandemic. The most common use case would be served really well by a PWA, and as such, there's no reason users would need to install an app on their phones to access the web app's full set of features. > Despite the web app working perfectly on Android and across Windows, Linux and macOS without native integration, we now must dedicate time and resources to develop an additional iOS app just so iOS users, which over half of Americans are, aren't left out. > This is an expensive endeavor time-wise and money-wise, during a pandemic where time is of the essence and resources are stretched thin. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26520148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26520148

agust 5y ago

Sure. Users don't even know it would be possible, and don't care about the tech anyway. What they care about however is how much they pay for apps, how much they pay for in-app purchases, and being able to switch freely from one platform to another. Well, Apple's behaviour is impacting all this by forcing companies to develop native apps instead of web apps. Web apps (could) work anywhere, and cost a fraction of the cost of native apps.

finiteseries 5y ago
This is clear, but only replaces the web developer’s perspective with the company’s, not the layman user’s. In-app purchases and App Store purchases in general are already scraping the bottom of the barrel, we’re talking about the difference between $9.99 & <$7 at the higher end assuming everything works out. That absolutely matters, but much more to the sellers than the users. We can imagine the thousands of needlessly native apps with a platform mandated 30% surcharge being transported onto the open web and into user devices free of interference. Hardware accelerated IG like filters writing to local disk in the background at 60fps, DRM protected 4k streaming with cheaper monthly subs, hobbyist forum sites on the home screen with PMs and replies pushing notifications alongside FB, the dream. But Abuelita is going to experience the millions of individual pages relying exclusively on advertising revenue already twisted and contorted into profitable positions being given the green light for Notifications, Geolocation, Bluetooth, NFC, Network Info, Ambient Light, Idleness, Proximity APIs etc while she’s just trying to read about how Joe Biden is destroying the fabric of America.

pornel 5y ago

To users it doesn't matter whether an app uses JS or Swift, only that it works smoothly and has all the features. It is in Apple's interest to keep web apps clunky, and forever less capable than their native platform. If "Add to Homescreen" wasn't added in the pre-AppStore era, I don't think it'd happen. This feature has clearly been mothballed. Homescreen web apps were given a second-rate build of WebKit that has been been consistently slower and buggier than standalone Safari (I don't know if they've fixed it recently. Homescreen webapps that I worked on all gave in to the AppStore eventually). Apple has the same fear as Microsoft had that powerful Web apps will make their native platform unnecessary. Microsoft made a mistake of abandoning Internet Explorer 6 entirely. Apple is smart enough to keep user-facing parts of their browser high quality, and only drag their feet on more advanced platform features. They forbid other browser engines, which magically makes Safari appear as technically capable as every other iOS browser.

Leherenn 5y ago

I do. We have a device that creates its own Wi-Fi and serves a web app to interact with it. We have a lot of clients that would like to be notified when a new firmware is released for the device. Another recent one, a customer on iOS 12 did not understand why he couldn't save a file generated on the device to his phone. I told him it's not possible, but he can save it to iCloud (without a correct name though). I got told off about how bad we must be not to support such a basic feature. Don't ask me mate.

kwyjobojoe 5y ago

I'd pay money to use real Firefox on my ipad and have access to a good ad blocker

Siira 5y ago

I have also never known a single layman who complained about memory leaks. People don't complain about stuff they don't understand, but that doesn't mean the problems are not affecting them. Another problem is that small problems affecting a large number of people do not have much vocal support, while their costs are still enormous. (As compared to problems that affect a minority a lot.)

jwitthuhn 5y ago

As a user I really value having a good ad blocker integrated with my mobile browser. Safari is okay at ad blocking but it can't do nearly as much as Firefox Mobile with uBlock, and Apple doesn't seem at all interested in improving it.

heavyset_go 5y ago

From my HN post[1] one month ago: > The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. > I recently worked on a health app related to the COVID pandemic. The most common use case would be served really well by a PWA, and as such, there's no reason users would need to install an app on their phones to access the web app's full set of features. > Despite the web app working perfectly on Android and across Windows, Linux and macOS without native integration, we now must dedicate time and resources to develop an additional iOS app just so iOS users, which over half of Americans are, aren't left out. > This is an expensive endeavor time-wise and money-wise, during a pandemic where time is of the essence and resources are stretched thin. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26520148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26520148