6 ms·

Any percentage is accessible, Spotify just can't be forced to use it. Don't wanna use Spotify's own billing system? Don't use Spotify, there's Apple music. Vo

by dannyw 6y ago

Any percentage is accessible, Spotify just can't be forced to use it. Don't wanna use Spotify's own billing system? Don't use Spotify, there's Apple music. Voila. Competition.

endisneigh 6y ago
Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and other food apps. There are literally thousands of platforms like this. People should just leave if they don’t like the rules.
- itg 6y ago
  Apple devices and services don't have to be available in Europe at all. Either Apple benefits from Europe, in which case they need to follow European rules and regulations, or they don't benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the EU.
  - endisneigh 6y ago
    I agree completely. I look forward to seeing rules in the EU that ban percentage based fees and make all platforms open.
    - asddubs 6y ago
      it might just end in them not being allowed to reject apps for advertising alternate payment methods
- dannyw 6y ago
  Actually, yes, Spotify does have to be available on iOS devices if Spotify chooses to. Apple will be slapped with aggressive enforcement action if they pull something like that. Apple isn't a deity.
  - endisneigh 6y ago
    What? According to what rule is Spotify entitled a presence on Apple devices?
    - quonn 6y ago
      According to rules made by the EU presumably.
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
      That would be a huge breach of anti-monopoly laws - you are abusing dominant position in the market to fuck over your competition (on the music streaming market).
  - breakfastduck 6y ago
    This is so utterly bonkers. You're essentially saying if a crisp manufacturer wanted to sell in Asda, but Asda didn't want to sell them, Asda could be slapped with enforcement action for not selling the crisps?
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
      If Asda is the only shop for half of the population, then yes. Especially if Asda had their own crisps and don't allow anyone else to sell theirs.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- swongel 6y ago
  So Apple is forcing its customers to bundle their phone with their billing platform. Which should be illegal (as we democratically decided to have these laws), having no choice in services is not a feature it's an additional price to pay for the product and customers legally didn't agree to that simply by buying a commodity phone (no contract, no consideration whatsoever for this additional price). > People should just leave if they don’t like the rules. This is correct, Apple should just get out if they don't like the anti-trust rules of our market.
  - endisneigh 6y ago
    I’m curious - In the EU are businesses required by law to accept whatever form of payment the customer would like to use? Are vendors required?
    - swongel 6y ago
      No, you can't pay with any currency like Zimbabwean dollars and expect the EU to force businesses to accept it, no. But this article isn't about legal tender or how debts can be repaid it's about anti-trust and coupling commodities (like bread, and phones) with exclusive services without a service contract at the moment of purchase.
- echelon 6y ago
  > Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices [...] or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. Apple benefits from our society, and they've gamed their way into a Al Capone / Suez Canal / golden goose scenario. They've locked up everything under their control because they managed to weasel themselves into controlling 50% of the mobile phone market. This was, in retrospect, an illegal move. Either Apple benefits from government-sanctioned commerce, or they don't. They can easily be broken up or fined into oblivion. The industry will move on regardless of what happens to Apple.
mirthflat83 6y ago
Spotify isn’t even using Apple’s payment system
hk1337 6y ago
I believe the flip side of it is that Spotify would not even give the user the option. So, to use Spotify, you have to use their billing system.
- echelon 6y ago
  That isn't a problem. I can count on my hand the number of merchants I haven't done business with because they weren't on Google Wallet, Apple Pay, or PayPal. Zero. The problem is one company controlling our entire industry.

by dannyw 6y ago

Any percentage is accessible, Spotify just can't be forced to use it. Don't wanna use Spotify's own billing system? Don't use Spotify, there's Apple music. Voila. Competition.

endisneigh 6y ago

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and other food apps. There are literally thousands of platforms like this. People should just leave if they don’t like the rules.

itg 6y ago
Apple devices and services don't have to be available in Europe at all. Either Apple benefits from Europe, in which case they need to follow European rules and regulations, or they don't benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the EU.
- endisneigh 6y ago
  I agree completely. I look forward to seeing rules in the EU that ban percentage based fees and make all platforms open.
  - asddubs 6y ago
    it might just end in them not being allowed to reject apps for advertising alternate payment methods
dannyw 6y ago
Actually, yes, Spotify does have to be available on iOS devices if Spotify chooses to. Apple will be slapped with aggressive enforcement action if they pull something like that. Apple isn't a deity.
- endisneigh 6y ago
  What? According to what rule is Spotify entitled a presence on Apple devices?
  - quonn 6y ago
    According to rules made by the EU presumably.
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
    That would be a huge breach of anti-monopoly laws - you are abusing dominant position in the market to fuck over your competition (on the music streaming market).
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  This is so utterly bonkers. You're essentially saying if a crisp manufacturer wanted to sell in Asda, but Asda didn't want to sell them, Asda could be slapped with enforcement action for not selling the crisps?
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
    If Asda is the only shop for half of the population, then yes. Especially if Asda had their own crisps and don't allow anyone else to sell theirs.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
swongel 6y ago
So Apple is forcing its customers to bundle their phone with their billing platform. Which should be illegal (as we democratically decided to have these laws), having no choice in services is not a feature it's an additional price to pay for the product and customers legally didn't agree to that simply by buying a commodity phone (no contract, no consideration whatsoever for this additional price). > People should just leave if they don’t like the rules. This is correct, Apple should just get out if they don't like the anti-trust rules of our market.
- endisneigh 6y ago
  I’m curious - In the EU are businesses required by law to accept whatever form of payment the customer would like to use? Are vendors required?
  - swongel 6y ago
    No, you can't pay with any currency like Zimbabwean dollars and expect the EU to force businesses to accept it, no. But this article isn't about legal tender or how debts can be repaid it's about anti-trust and coupling commodities (like bread, and phones) with exclusive services without a service contract at the moment of purchase.
echelon 6y ago
> Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices [...] or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. Apple benefits from our society, and they've gamed their way into a Al Capone / Suez Canal / golden goose scenario. They've locked up everything under their control because they managed to weasel themselves into controlling 50% of the mobile phone market. This was, in retrospect, an illegal move. Either Apple benefits from government-sanctioned commerce, or they don't. They can easily be broken up or fined into oblivion. The industry will move on regardless of what happens to Apple.

mirthflat83 6y ago

Spotify isn’t even using Apple’s payment system

hk1337 6y ago

I believe the flip side of it is that Spotify would not even give the user the option. So, to use Spotify, you have to use their billing system.

echelon 6y ago
That isn't a problem. I can count on my hand the number of merchants I haven't done business with because they weren't on Google Wallet, Apple Pay, or PayPal. Zero. The problem is one company controlling our entire industry.